Discussion:
A pure bloodstream --a probable antidote to all bacterial infections
(too old to reply)
carole
2010-08-18 07:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Yersinia pestis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yersinia_pestis
Yersinia pestis (formerly Pasteurella pestis) is a Gram-negative rod-shaped
bacterium belonging to the family Enterobacteriaceae. It is a facultative
anaerobe that can infect humans and other animals.[1]
Human Y. pestis infection takes three main forms: pneumonic, septicemic, and
the notorious bubonic plagues.[1] All three forms are widely believed to
have been responsible for a number of high-mortality epidemics throughout
human history, including the Plague of Justinian in 542 and the Black Death
that accounted for the death of at least one-third of the European
population between 1347 and 1353. More recently, Y. pestis has gained
attention as a possible biological warfare agent and the CDC has classified
it as a category A pathogen requiring preparation for a possible terrorist
attack.

=========================================
IMO the people who contract the disease have impure bloodstreams ie
toxemia but this concept is removed from medical schools now and
replaced with drugs for every manifestation of toxemia
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds readily to
antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that are effective
against it.

Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25 million
Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all had "impure
bloodstreams"?

=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had impure
bloodstreams.
Even today in the west where people eat well, the signs are there that many
people are unwittingly suffering from impure bloodstreams.
No doubt there are different definitions between practitioners, and maybe
some practitioners don't have a definition for it at all, because its
concept that is commonly used these days.


However, bechamp and his followers believe that the germ is nothing and the
soil is everything.
Its not the germs, microbes, bacteria, parasites or fungi that are the
issue, but rather the internal environment or the internal milieu.

http://www.alternativetherapyadvice.com/alternative_therapy/germs_therapy.htm
He [bechamp] said that a person's 'internal environment', that is, their
'milieu', their 'internal terrain' was far more important than the germ when
it came to explain why people get sick. This thinking became the foundation
for Alternative or Complimentary Medicine, and is known as the Internal
Milieu (Terrain) Theory of Disease.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milieu_int%C3%A9rieur
Milieu intérieur or interior milieu, from the French, milieu intérieur, (the
environment within) is a term coined by Claude Bernard to refer to the
extra-cellular fluid environment, and its physiological capacity to ensure
protective stability for the tissues and organs of multicellular living
organisms.

A pure bloodstream only cure
www.healingcancernaturally.com/rockefeller-drug-empire-story.html
"To teach the Rockefeller drug ideology, it is necessary to teach that
Nature didn't know what she was doing when she made the human body. But
statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal Security Agency
show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust for drugging,
vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the health of the American
nation has sharply declined, especially among children. Children are now
given "shots" for this and "shots" for that, when the only safeguard known
to science is a pure bloodstream, which can be obtained only with clean air
and wholesome food. Meaning by natural and inexpensive means. Just what the
Drug Trust most objects to."


carole
www.soiltheory.com
Steelclaws
2010-08-18 10:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Yersinia pestis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yersinia_pestis
Yersinia pestis (formerly Pasteurella pestis) is a Gram-negative
rod-shaped bacterium belonging to the family Enterobacteriaceae. It is
a facultative anaerobe that can infect humans and other animals.[1]
Human Y. pestis infection takes three main forms: pneumonic,
septicemic, and the notorious bubonic plagues.[1] All three forms are
widely believed to have been responsible for a number of
high-mortality epidemics throughout human history, including the
Plague of Justinian in 542 and the Black Death that accounted for the
death of at least one-third of the European population between 1347
and 1353. More recently, Y. pestis has gained attention as a possible
biological warfare agent and the CDC has classified it as a category A
pathogen requiring preparation for a possible terrorist attack.
=========================================
IMO the people who contract the disease have impure bloodstreams ie
toxemia but this concept is removed from medical schools now and
replaced with drugs for every manifestation of toxemia
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds
readily to antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that are
effective against it.
Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25
million Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all
had "impure bloodstreams"?
=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had impure
bloodstreams.
So why did they not succumb to the variety of maladies you claim impure
bloodstreams can cause? Why just this one disease?
Post by carole
Even today in the west where people eat well, the signs are there that
many people are unwittingly suffering from impure bloodstreams.
No doubt there are different definitions between practitioners, and
maybe some practitioners don't have a definition for it at all,
because its concept that is commonly used these days.
However, bechamp and his followers believe that the germ is nothing
and the soil is everything.
Its not the germs, microbes, bacteria, parasites or fungi that are the
issue, but rather the internal environment or the internal milieu.
http://www.alternativetherapyadvice.com/alternative_therapy/germs_ther
a
Post by carole
py.htm He [bechamp] said that a person's 'internal environment', that
is, their 'milieu', their 'internal terrain' was far more important
than the germ when it came to explain why people get sick. This
thinking became the foundation for Alternative or Complimentary
Medicine, and is known as the Internal Milieu (Terrain) Theory of
Disease.
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such numbers?
Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a pandemic of such
mortality rate and in such easily definable period of time?
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream only cure
www.healingcancernaturally.com/rockefeller-drug-empire-story.html
"To teach the Rockefeller drug ideology, it is necessary to teach that
Nature didn't know what she was doing when she made the human body.
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal Security
Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust for
drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the health of
the American nation has sharply declined, especially among children.
References, please.
Post by carole
Children are now given "shots" for this and "shots" for that, when the
only safeguard known to science is a pure bloodstream, which can be
obtained only with clean air and wholesome food. Meaning by natural
and inexpensive means. Just what the Drug Trust most objects to."
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.

Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming' the
immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response, via use
of an infectious agent, is known as immunization. Vaccinations involve
the administration of one or more immunogens, which can be administered
in several forms.

You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf

Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something no
"alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of the
effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can provide
more, if need be:

Afghanistan: 1970 1,044 smallpox cases. Intensive vaccination campaign
launched. 1971, 736 cases, none since.

Boston: 1702-03 300 smallpox deaths (of population about 7,000), 1721-22
6,000 cases, 730 deaths (population about 11,000). Variolation
introduced, no cases in 1723. 1763-64: 12 cases, 11 deaths. 5,000
persons inoculated, 699 cases, 160 deaths (population about
15,000-20,000).

Brazilia: 1967-71 558 smallpox cases, 42 million vaccinations performed,
no cases since.

Ghana: 1945-47 3,196 smallpox cases, 608 deaths. Vaccination campaign
launched, 1,262 cases in 1948

Guinea: 1967 1,529 smallpox cases, 103 deaths. Mass vaccination
launched, 16 cases in 1968-69.

India: 1973-74 188,000 smallpox cases, 30,000 deaths. Mass vaccination
launched, last case ever May 1975.

Italy: 1920-21: 31,097 smallpox cases, 12,433 deaths. Mass vaccinations
in 1921, 4644 cases, 1360 deaths. 1922, 534 cases, 37 deaths.

Now compare to historical cases where vaccination has not been available
- and bear in mind that the populations were smaller than today:

Smallpox:

Bengal: 1770: 3 million deaths

Hispaniola: 1518, 299,000 deaths (population about 300,000)

Iceland 1707-09 15,000 deaths (population 50,000)

UK 1769: 35,000 deaths

-reference: Encyclopedia of Plague and Pestilence: from ancient times to
the present / George Childs Kohn, editor. 3rd ed. Facts On File, 2008

That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000 who
died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.

Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed "impure
bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen they had no
resistance for and which killed most of them.

This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in history,
the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox epidemics
amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the 19th century.
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
carole
2010-08-18 13:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Yersinia pestis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yersinia_pestis
Yersinia pestis (formerly Pasteurella pestis) is a Gram-negative
rod-shaped bacterium belonging to the family Enterobacteriaceae. It is
a facultative anaerobe that can infect humans and other animals.[1]
Human Y. pestis infection takes three main forms: pneumonic,
septicemic, and the notorious bubonic plagues.[1] All three forms are
widely believed to have been responsible for a number of
high-mortality epidemics throughout human history, including the
Plague of Justinian in 542 and the Black Death that accounted for the
death of at least one-third of the European population between 1347
and 1353. More recently, Y. pestis has gained attention as a possible
biological warfare agent and the CDC has classified it as a category A
pathogen requiring preparation for a possible terrorist attack.
=========================================
IMO the people who contract the disease have impure bloodstreams ie
toxemia but this concept is removed from medical schools now and
replaced with drugs for every manifestation of toxemia
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds
readily to antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that are
effective against it.
Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25
million Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all
had "impure bloodstreams"?
=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had impure
bloodstreams.
So why did they not succumb to the variety of maladies you claim impure
bloodstreams can cause? Why just this one disease?
Maybe something to do with the specific bacteria, maybe it multiplies faster
or produces a more virulent toxin.
Or maybe the fact it was injected into the bloodstream by the fleas at so
many locations.
Or a combination of these two factors.

However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the bacteria
would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they mutate
according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in 36
hours that would pass any lab test.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Even today in the west where people eat well, the signs are there that
many people are unwittingly suffering from impure bloodstreams.
No doubt there are different definitions between practitioners, and
maybe some practitioners don't have a definition for it at all,
because its concept that is commonly used these days.
However, bechamp and his followers believe that the germ is nothing
and the soil is everything.
Its not the germs, microbes, bacteria, parasites or fungi that are the
issue, but rather the internal environment or the internal milieu.
http://www.alternativetherapyadvice.com/alternative_therapy/germs_ther
a
Post by carole
py.htm He [bechamp] said that a person's 'internal environment', that
is, their 'milieu', their 'internal terrain' was far more important
than the germ when it came to explain why people get sick. This
thinking became the foundation for Alternative or Complimentary
Medicine, and is known as the Internal Milieu (Terrain) Theory of
Disease.
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such numbers?
Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a pandemic of such
mortality rate and in such easily definable period of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria spercies.
There'd probably be something different about this bacteria or the way it
was injected.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream only cure
www.healingcancernaturally.com/rockefeller-drug-empire-story.html
"To teach the Rockefeller drug ideology, it is necessary to teach that
Nature didn't know what she was doing when she made the human body.
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of creating a
pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs, fasting or whatever.
My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of tartar in a little water,
as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This to be repeated at intervals until
the infection subsides.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal Security
Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust for
drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the health of
the American nation has sharply declined, especially among children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller Drug
empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in children
including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring rapidly to mind
which were never issues 50 years ago.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Children are now given "shots" for this and "shots" for that, when the
only safeguard known to science is a pure bloodstream, which can be
obtained only with clean air and wholesome food. Meaning by natural
and inexpensive means. Just what the Drug Trust most objects to."
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the need
for vaccinations against each and every disease that could confront us?
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming' the
immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response, via use
of an infectious agent, is known as immunization. Vaccinations involve
the administration of one or more immunogens, which can be administered
in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something no
"alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of the
effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can provide
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of vaccinations
for anything and everything.
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
We go and bomb the buggery out of a country like Iraq, kill of a million of
the population through sanctions, bombs and ruining their infrastructure,
then set them up with vaccinations and genetically altered seeds, and all
the trappings of big corporations that want to make more money out of the
3rd world.

Yes, its all very admirable but there are some questions.
We've all seen the statistics on how the drug companies say they are saving
lives in different parts of the world.
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said that
the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases with
natural remedies.

I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the market
taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody you're
kidding yourself.
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the children",
"are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful ways to
protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the drug mob.
Post by Steelclaws
Afghanistan: 1970 1,044 smallpox cases. Intensive vaccination campaign
launched. 1971, 736 cases, none since.
Boston: 1702-03 300 smallpox deaths (of population about 7,000), 1721-22
6,000 cases, 730 deaths (population about 11,000). Variolation
introduced, no cases in 1723. 1763-64: 12 cases, 11 deaths. 5,000
persons inoculated, 699 cases, 160 deaths (population about
15,000-20,000).
Brazilia: 1967-71 558 smallpox cases, 42 million vaccinations performed,
no cases since.
Ghana: 1945-47 3,196 smallpox cases, 608 deaths. Vaccination campaign
launched, 1,262 cases in 1948
Guinea: 1967 1,529 smallpox cases, 103 deaths. Mass vaccination
launched, 16 cases in 1968-69.
India: 1973-74 188,000 smallpox cases, 30,000 deaths. Mass vaccination
launched, last case ever May 1975.
Italy: 1920-21: 31,097 smallpox cases, 12,433 deaths. Mass vaccinations
in 1921, 4644 cases, 1360 deaths. 1922, 534 cases, 37 deaths.
Now compare to historical cases where vaccination has not been available
Bengal: 1770: 3 million deaths
Hispaniola: 1518, 299,000 deaths (population about 300,000)
Iceland 1707-09 15,000 deaths (population 50,000)
UK 1769: 35,000 deaths
-reference: Encyclopedia of Plague and Pestilence: from ancient times to
the present / George Childs Kohn, editor. 3rd ed. Facts On File, 2008
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000 who
died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with having a
pure bloodstream.
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed "impure
bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen they had no
resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in history,
the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox epidemics
amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the 19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they try to
kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Post by Steelclaws
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce
Steelclaws
2010-08-18 14:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds
readily to antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that
are effective against it.
Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25
million Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all
had "impure bloodstreams"?
=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had
impure bloodstreams.
So why did they not succumb to the variety of maladies you claim
impure bloodstreams can cause? Why just this one disease?
Maybe something to do with the specific bacteria, maybe it multiplies
faster or produces a more virulent toxin.
Or maybe the fact it was injected into the bloodstream by the fleas at
so many locations.
Or a combination of these two factors.
Or maybe it was a new, not previously encountered pathogen. What would
point to this is the fact that even though there were recurring plague
epidemics, they never reached the mortality rate of the first one, as the
survivors had developed partial immunity - or were lucky enough to have the
mutated version of the gene CCR5 in the first place. This mutation shields
the ones who have it from both the plague and HIV infection.
Post by carole
However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the
bacteria would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they mutate
according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in
36 hours that would pass any lab test.
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the question:
has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not, then it's more
than unlikely that Rife was right.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this bacteria
or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of
tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This
to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your treatment
in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.

I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by deliberately
infecting yourself the plague.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal
Security Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust
for drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the
health of the American nation has sharply declined, especially among
children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller
Drug empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in
children including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring
rapidly to mind which were never issues 50 years ago.
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family. Also
remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum disorders have
been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are better than 50 years
ago.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the
need for vaccinations against each and every disease that could
confront us?
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming'
the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response,
via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization.
Vaccinations involve the administration of one or more immunogens,
which can be administered in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Have you actually understood what it's all about?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely are you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint to
feed crap food to their kids?

Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that Ehreth
article on how many life years are saved thanks to the vaccines.

The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something
no "alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of
the effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
Post by carole
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
No argument with that.
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said
that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases
with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
Post by carole
I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
Humanity has been moving away from nature ever since the first people
discovered how to use fire. It's been a major trend through all human
prehistory and history.
Post by carole
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the
market taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody
you're kidding yourself.
Selling a product that works brings return customers.
Post by carole
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
Which company isn't? This goes for the SCAM companies just as well.
Post by carole
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the
children", "are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
Interestingly enough, the first measles deaths in children in the UK for
years occurred after Wakefield's "research" had been made public, and the
resulting mass hysteria brought the vaccination rates down.
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000
who died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with
having a pure bloodstream.
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518, and why
the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen
they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in
history, the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox
epidemics amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the
19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they
try to kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have such
pandemics of these diseases?
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
carole
2010-08-19 23:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds
readily to antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that
are effective against it.
Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25
million Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all
had "impure bloodstreams"?
=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had
impure bloodstreams.
So why did they not succumb to the variety of maladies you claim
impure bloodstreams can cause? Why just this one disease?
Maybe something to do with the specific bacteria, maybe it multiplies
faster or produces a more virulent toxin.
Or maybe the fact it was injected into the bloodstream by the fleas at
so many locations.
Or a combination of these two factors.
Or maybe it was a new, not previously encountered pathogen. What would
point to this is the fact that even though there were recurring plague
epidemics, they never reached the mortality rate of the first one, as the
survivors had developed partial immunity - or were lucky enough to have the
mutated version of the gene CCR5 in the first place. This mutation shields
the ones who have it from both the plague and HIV infection.
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the
bacteria would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they mutate
according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in
36 hours that would pass any lab test.
has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not, then it's more
than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his laboratory
trashed.
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for yourself to
find other people who continue on similar things - if you are so interested.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this bacteria
or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from looking
further into it?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of
tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This
to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your treatment
in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections with
cellsalts.
Why not bubonic plague?
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by deliberately
infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for
this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal
Security Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust
for drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the
health of the American nation has sharply declined, especially among
children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller
Drug empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in
children including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring
rapidly to mind which were never issues 50 years ago.
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family. Also
remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum disorders have
been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are better than 50 years
ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what constitutes
a healthy bloodstream.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the
need for vaccinations against each and every disease that could
confront us?
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting which
never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with cellsalts -
mainly reducing acidity.
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming'
the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response,
via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization.
Vaccinations involve the administration of one or more immunogens,
which can be administered in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Have you actually understood what it's all about?
You mean vaccinating for each and every disease that a person could become
infected with?
What is so hard to understand?

What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha, it
has never been tested.

So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through becoming
acidic and pollutants from environment.
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to prevent any
manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to create greater levels
of impurities with the drugs added and even greater level of impurities /
toxemia.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely are you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint to
feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry paid
to schools of education?


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pharmaceutical_industry

History of pharmaceutical interests
"In the early half of the 20th century, petrochemical giants organized a
coup on the medical research facilities, hospitals and universities. The
Rockefeller family sponsored research and donated sums to universities and
medical schools which had drug based research. They further extended this
policy to foreign universities and medical schools where research was drug
based through their "International Education Board". Establishments and
research which were were not drug based were refused funding and soon
dissolved in favor of the lucrative pharmaceutical industry. In 1939 a "Drug
Trust" alliance was formed by the Rockefeller empire and the German chemical
company I.G. Farben (Bayer). After World War II, I.G. Farben was dismantled
but later emerged as separate corporations within the alliance. Well known
companies included General Mills, Kellogg, Nestle, Bristol-Myers Squibb,
Procter and Gamble, Roche and Hoechst (Sanofi-Aventis). The Rockefeller
empire, in tandem with Chase Manhattan Bank (now JP Morgan Chase), owns over
half of the pharmaceutical interests in the United States. It is the largest
drug manufacturing combine in the world. Since WWII, the pharmaceutical
industry has steadily netted increasing profits to become the world's second
largest manufacturing industry; [3], [4] after the arms industry.

"The Rockefeller Foundation was originally set up in 1904 as the General
Education Fund. The RF was later formed in 1910 and issued a charter on May
14, 1913 with the help of Rockefeller millions. Subsequently, the foundation
placed it's own "nominees" in federal health agencies and set the stage for
the "reeducation" of the public. A compilation of magazine advertising
reveals that as far back as 1948, larger American drug companies spent a
total sum of $1,104,224,374 for advertising. Of this sum, Rockefeller-Morgan
interests (which went entirely to Rockefeller after Morgan's death)
controlled about 80%. [5]"
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that Ehreth
article on how many life years are saved thanks to the vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew how to
detox themselves properly.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something
no "alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of
the effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.


Rewriting medical history
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pharmaceutical_industry
There is a surprising amount of medical documentation of vaccine failure.
Measles, mumps, small pox, polio and Hib outbreaks have all occurred in
vaccinated populations. [23], [24], [25], [26], [27] In 1989 the Center for
Disease Control (CDC) reported that measles outbreaks occurred in schools
where 98% of the children had received immunizations. [28] Outbreaks and
epidemics have occurred in all parts of the country after immunizations,
including areas that had not reported measles for years. [29] In 1984, the
CDC reported a measles outbreak in population that was documented as 100%
vaccinated. [30] According to a study conducted in 1996, measles has become
a "disease of immunized persons". In other words, the measles vaccine
produces immune suppression and increases susceptibility to infection. [31]

On March 29, 2008, CDC chief Julie Gerberding admitted that vaccines trigger
autism in a subset of the population with mitochondrial disorders on CNN's
House Call with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. (right)
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
No argument with that.
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said
that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases
with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
Humanity has been moving away from nature ever since the first people
discovered how to use fire. It's been a major trend through all human
prehistory and history.
True.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the
market taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody
you're kidding yourself.
Selling a product that works brings return customers.
Post by carole
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
Which company isn't? This goes for the SCAM companies just as well.
Post by carole
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the
children", "are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
Interestingly enough, the first measles deaths in children in the UK for
years occurred after Wakefield's "research" had been made public, and the
resulting mass hysteria brought the vaccination rates down.
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000
who died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with
having a pure bloodstream.
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518, and why
the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen
they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in
history, the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox
epidemics amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the
19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they
try to kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have such
pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-20 00:40:16 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:44:04 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds
readily to antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that
are effective against it.
Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25
million Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all
had "impure bloodstreams"?
=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had
impure bloodstreams.
So why did they not succumb to the variety of maladies you claim
impure bloodstreams can cause? Why just this one disease?
Maybe something to do with the specific bacteria, maybe it multiplies
faster or produces a more virulent toxin.
Or maybe the fact it was injected into the bloodstream by the fleas at
so many locations.
Or a combination of these two factors.
Or maybe it was a new, not previously encountered pathogen. What would
point to this is the fact that even though there were recurring plague
epidemics, they never reached the mortality rate of the first one, as the
survivors had developed partial immunity - or were lucky enough to have the
mutated version of the gene CCR5 in the first place. This mutation shields
the ones who have it from both the plague and HIV infection.
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the
bacteria would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they mutate
according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in
36 hours that would pass any lab test.
has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not, then it's more
than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his laboratory
trashed.
And Carole you also posted an article which lead to statements that
doesn't support this story. Two of his microscopes are still in
existence, and one is considered in working order. But, no one can
get it to duplicate Rife's claims. And Carole, I suspect most of his
notes are still in existence.
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
Which doesn't actually fit the facts... you posted two different web
sites which contradict each other. Logic tells us the the two of
mutually exclusive by claim. Just one or the other could be right or
neither could be right, but both can not be right.
Post by carole
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for yourself to
find other people who continue on similar things - if you are so interested.
Rife's Microscope claimed to do the impossible. and When he was shown
that is didn't work as claimed, I suspect the person that wrecked his
lab was Rife himself. No one, other than him, anything to gain
wrecking a piece of equipment, that didn't work.

Common Sense and Logic rule, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this bacteria
or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from looking
further into it?
Becuase it deals which Evidence Based Medicine, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of
tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This
to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your treatment
in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes we do Carole. It is the evidence.
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections with
cellsalts.
But you failed to produce one bit of *evidence*. You don't even have
evidence of the Fungus infection you claimed to have had, Let alone
Evidence you got "rid" of it.
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Because that all they had during those nasty plagues which killed so
many people.
Post by carole
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
It is mostly the point Carole.
Post by carole
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
No.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by deliberately
infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for
this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
Becuase you do not know how evidence or tests are conducted, you are
like most people of faith you wouldn't change your beliefs and revise
the dogma even in the face of hard, unrefutable evidence.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal
Security Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust
for drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the
health of the American nation has sharply declined, especially among
children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller
Drug empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in
children including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring
rapidly to mind which were never issues 50 years ago.
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family. Also
remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum disorders have
been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are better than 50 years
ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
Based on what evidence? Most people having the wealth to seek
treatments?
Post by carole
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what constitutes
a healthy bloodstream.
Or your lack of critical thinking, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the
need for vaccinations against each and every disease that could
confront us?
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
So have lots of theories, but you have started using fallacies again.
Appeal to Tradition. The theory is old so it must be true, is a
fallacy. Remember Fallacies are Defects in logic and thinking,
Carole.
Post by carole
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting which
never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with cellsalts -
mainly reducing acidity.
Post Hoc Claim.
Post by carole
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
Continued Abuse of Defective Logic, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming'
the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response,
via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization.
Vaccinations involve the administration of one or more immunogens,
which can be administered in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Have you actually understood what it's all about?
You mean vaccinating for each and every disease that a person could become
infected with?
What is so hard to understand?
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha, it
has never been tested.
Because such a thing doesn't exist Carole.
Post by carole
So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through becoming
acidic and pollutants from environment.
No that is your claim and assertion. it isn't a theory by any sense,
Carole.
Post by carole
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to prevent any
manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to create greater levels
of impurities with the drugs added and even greater level of impurities /
toxemia.
Pre-Eclampsia?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely are you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint to
feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry paid
to schools of education?
But There are also massive donations from other people too. But not
bit of evidence of tampering with curriculum of the schools


<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that Ehreth
article on how many life years are saved thanks to the vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew how to
detox themselves properly.
Detox is myth, Carole. there is zero evidence that shows it works
better than placebo treatments.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something
no "alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of
the effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Since the word Allopath is a word which means all other than
Homeopathy, you statement ends up meaning nothing, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.
Hun?


<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
No argument with that.
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said
that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases
with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
People selling snake oil also make claims. Evidence is what allows
people to separate the true from false.

For instance, Carole Claims to have "got rid" of a foot fungus. She
has zero evidence of the Fungus before she treated it. And Zero post
treatment evidence she got rid of it.

Using logic and critical thinking there should only be one conclusion
about Carole's Claim. It is False.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
Humanity has been moving away from nature ever since the first people
discovered how to use fire. It's been a major trend through all human
prehistory and history.
True.
And remember the closer to nature we are, the shorter lifespan will
become.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the
market taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody
you're kidding yourself.
Selling a product that works brings return customers.
Post by carole
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
Which company isn't? This goes for the SCAM companies just as well.
Post by carole
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the
children", "are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
Interestingly enough, the first measles deaths in children in the UK for
years occurred after Wakefield's "research" had been made public, and the
resulting mass hysteria brought the vaccination rates down.
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Which is really no knowledge at all, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000
who died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with
having a pure bloodstream.
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518, and why
the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen
they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
It is indicative of something which was imported into the area. BTW,
Carole Native Americans seem to have a slight resistance to dimorphic
fungus which Europeans do not seem to have. It might be the 30-50,000
years of living with it.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in
history, the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox
epidemics amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the
19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they
try to kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have such
pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.
until some better evidence based solution comes along humanity will
stick with what works.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-20 14:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:44:04 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds
readily to antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that
are effective against it.
Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25
million Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all
had "impure bloodstreams"?
=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had
impure bloodstreams.
So why did they not succumb to the variety of maladies you claim
impure bloodstreams can cause? Why just this one disease?
Maybe something to do with the specific bacteria, maybe it multiplies
faster or produces a more virulent toxin.
Or maybe the fact it was injected into the bloodstream by the fleas at
so many locations.
Or a combination of these two factors.
Or maybe it was a new, not previously encountered pathogen. What would
point to this is the fact that even though there were recurring plague
epidemics, they never reached the mortality rate of the first one, as the
survivors had developed partial immunity - or were lucky enough to have the
mutated version of the gene CCR5 in the first place. This mutation shields
the ones who have it from both the plague and HIV infection.
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the
bacteria would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they mutate
according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in
36 hours that would pass any lab test.
has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not, then it's more
than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his laboratory
trashed.
And Carole you also posted an article which lead to statements that
doesn't support this story. Two of his microscopes are still in
existence, and one is considered in working order. But, no one can
get it to duplicate Rife's claims. And Carole, I suspect most of his
notes are still in existence.
No, its only one of his microscopes in working order in some museum I think.
The others were trashed or had parts missing, yes?
No bob, his notes were stolen, like with tesla after his death where most of
his journals were confiscated and locked away as they were rated top
security.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
Which doesn't actually fit the facts... you posted two different web
sites which contradict each other. Logic tells us the the two of
mutually exclusive by claim. Just one or the other could be right or
neither could be right, but both can not be right.
What was the contradiction bob?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for yourself to
find other people who continue on similar things - if you are so interested.
Rife's Microscope claimed to do the impossible. and When he was shown
that is didn't work as claimed, I suspect the person that wrecked his
lab was Rife himself. No one, other than him, anything to gain
wrecking a piece of equipment, that didn't work.
When you say impossible, I take it you mean that it breaks the rules of what
is capable of normal light path.
Your wife must be a very patient person to put up with you.
You should stick with her because I doubt if anybody else would put up with
your crap.
Post by Bob Officer
Common Sense and Logic rule, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this bacteria
or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from looking
further into it?
Becuase it deals which Evidence Based Medicine, Carole.
Whoopee!
But what would I do with the info bob?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of
tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This
to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your treatment
in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes we do Carole. It is the evidence.
You see bob, you say "we" -- you let others do your thinking.
I say that if it is a bacterial infection it may be able to be cured with
cellsalts.
After all bob, you display total ignorance in the area of cellsalts, toxemia
and blood purification.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections with
cellsalts.
But you failed to produce one bit of *evidence*. You don't even have
evidence of the Fungus infection you claimed to have had, Let alone
Evidence you got "rid" of it.
Yes, I have evidence bob.
Anybody who wants to try cellsalts out for themselves can do it firsthand.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Because that all they had during those nasty plagues which killed so
many people.
Post by carole
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
It is mostly the point Carole.
Post by carole
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
No.
But you would say that nothing can be cured by purifying the bloodstream,
isn't that so bob?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by deliberately
infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for
this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
Becuase you do not know how evidence or tests are conducted, you are
like most people of faith you wouldn't change your beliefs and revise
the dogma even in the face of hard, unrefutable evidence.
I don't really give a rat's arse how the pharmaceutical business in disease
do their testing, and fabricate 1/2 of it too from what I gather.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal
Security Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust
for drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the
health of the American nation has sharply declined, especially among
children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller
Drug empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in
children including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring
rapidly to mind which were never issues 50 years ago.
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family. Also
remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum disorders have
been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are better than 50 years
ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
Based on what evidence? Most people having the wealth to seek
treatments?
Childhood allergies are on the increase ...more kids have allergies to food.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what constitutes
a healthy bloodstream.
Or your lack of critical thinking, Carole.
Or your ability to think for yourself outside your dumb-down university
teaching compliments of Rockefeller donations to all medical schools who
would include the pharmaceutical dogma of symptom suppression over a pure
bloodstream.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the
need for vaccinations against each and every disease that could
confront us?
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
So have lots of theories, but you have started using fallacies again.
Appeal to Tradition. The theory is old so it must be true, is a
fallacy. Remember Fallacies are Defects in logic and thinking,
Carole.
Many of the old theories existed before medicine became corrupted by the
pharmaceutical business with disease.
Some history of the pharmaceutical business with disease --

IG Farben & Auschwitz
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pharmaceutical_industry

"Auschwitz was the largest mass extermination factory in human history.
However, few people are aware that Auschwitz was a 100% subsidiary of IG
Farben. On April 14, 1941, in Ludwigshafen, Otto Armbrust, the IG Farben
board member responsible for the Auschwitz project, stated to board
colleagues:
"our new friendship with the SS is a blessing. We have determined all
measures integrating the concentration camps to benefit our company."
Thousands of prisoners died during human experiments, drug and vaccine
testing. Before longtime Bayer employee and SS Auschwitz doctor Helmut
Vetter was executed for administering fatal infections, he wrote to his
bosses at Bayer headquarters:
"I have thrown myself into my work wholeheartedly. Especially as I have the
opportunity to test our new preparations. I feel like I am in paradise."

"After WWII, IG Farben attempted to shake its abominable image through
corporate restructuring and renaming. So great has been their success that
the public has no idea that it many of the men responsible for such
atrocities, were able to carry on their work even after the collapse of the
Nazi regime. Namely a medical paradigm that relies almost exclusively highly
toxic drugs. Such men were in control of the large chemical and
pharmaceutical companies, both well before and after Hitler. The Nuremberg
Tribunal convicted 24 IG Farben board members and executives on the basis of
mass murder, slavery and other crimes. Incredibly, most of them had been
released by 1951 and continued to consult with German corporations. The
Nuremberg Tribunal dissolved IG Farben into Bayer, Hoechst, and BASF, each
company 20 times as large as IG Farben in 1944. For almost three decades
after WWII, BASF, Bayer and Hoechst (Aventis) filled their highest position,
chairman of the board, with former members of the Nazi regime. Bayer has
been sued by survivors of medical experiments such as Eva Kor who, along
with her sister, survived experiments at the hands of Dr. Josef Mengele. [6]
See also Bayer."
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting which
never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with cellsalts -
mainly reducing acidity.
Post Hoc Claim.
Post by carole
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
Continued Abuse of Defective Logic, Carole.
Whatever bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming'
the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response,
via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization.
Vaccinations involve the administration of one or more immunogens,
which can be administered in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Have you actually understood what it's all about?
You mean vaccinating for each and every disease that a person could become
infected with?
What is so hard to understand?
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha, it
has never been tested.
Because such a thing doesn't exist Carole.
In your mind bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through becoming
acidic and pollutants from environment.
No that is your claim and assertion. it isn't a theory by any sense,
Carole.
Yes it is bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to prevent any
manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to create greater levels
of impurities with the drugs added and even greater level of impurities /
toxemia.
Pre-Eclampsia?
Of your brain bob and is going into a pre-eclampsia state.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely are you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint to
feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry paid
to schools of education?
But There are also massive donations from other people too. But not
bit of evidence of tampering with curriculum of the schools
Sorry bob, the story about the massive Rockefeller donations going back to
1900 is there.
They also cut down the number of doctors and number of schools to 1/2,
donating only to those who would include pharmaceuticals in their
curriculum.
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that Ehreth
article on how many life years are saved thanks to the vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew how to
detox themselves properly.
Detox is myth, Carole. there is zero evidence that shows it works
better than placebo treatments.
Sorry bob, there is the detox and its all about cellsalts.
Maybe there are other ways, but cellsalts work and I have a feeling that
they used to be used quite widely before the pharmaceutical business with
disease began their propaganda campaign against alternative medicine.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something
no "alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of
the effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Since the word Allopath is a word which means all other than
Homeopathy, you statement ends up meaning nothing, Carole.
As I've said previously bob, the word "allopath" has several meanings, one
of which is a method of treating disease with remedies that produce effects
antagonistic to those caused by the disease itself. see
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/allopathy

Like I said before bob, many words can have more than one meaning. You need
to develop a more flexible mindset to understand such concepts.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.
Hun?
I take it you mean "Huh?"
For the sceptic that you are bob, I give you the following excerpt -


Rewriting medical history
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pharmaceutical_industry
There is a surprising amount of medical documentation of vaccine failure.
Measles, mumps, small pox, polio and Hib outbreaks have all occurred in
vaccinated populations. [23], [24], [25], [26], [27] In 1989 the Center for
Disease Control (CDC) reported that measles outbreaks occurred in schools
where 98% of the children had received immunizations. [28] Outbreaks and
epidemics have occurred in all parts of the country after immunizations,
including areas that had not reported measles for years. [29] In 1984, the
CDC reported a measles outbreak in population that was documented as 100%
vaccinated. [30] According to a study conducted in 1996, measles has become
a "disease of immunized persons". In other words, the measles vaccine
produces immune suppression and increases susceptibility to infection. [31]
On March 29, 2008, CDC chief Julie Gerberding admitted that vaccines trigger
autism in a subset of the population with mitochondrial disorders on CNN's
House Call with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. (right)
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
No argument with that.
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said
that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases
with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
People selling snake oil also make claims. Evidence is what allows
people to separate the true from false.
For instance, Carole Claims to have "got rid" of a foot fungus. She
has zero evidence of the Fungus before she treated it. And Zero post
treatment evidence she got rid of it.
And zero evidence that you can think for yourself apart from your "experts"
and "reliable sources".
Post by Bob Officer
Using logic and critical thinking there should only be one conclusion
about Carole's Claim. It is False.
I don't know who you're talking to bob.
I don't think anybody would read these threads.

I have the evidence that anybody can try for themselves to see if it doesn't
work to purify the bloodstream.
I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with this system based on
cellsalts.
1/2 tspn each of bicarb (sodium) and cream of tartar (potassium)
interspersed with calcium carbonate tablets (1 gram elemental calcium per
time), take it at intervals until symptoms subside.

A pure bloodstream is the only cure for disease (apparently).
Well pharmaceutical drugs aren't. They cure nothing and foster lifelong
dependence, side effects and death for some.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
Humanity has been moving away from nature ever since the first people
discovered how to use fire. It's been a major trend through all human
prehistory and history.
True.
And remember the closer to nature we are, the shorter lifespan will
become.
Yes, I agree. If we were meant to live naturally we'd be living under a tree
somewhere.

What I should have said is, why give kids so many injections when the only
antidote to disease is a pure bloodstream.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the
market taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody
you're kidding yourself.
Selling a product that works brings return customers.
Post by carole
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
Which company isn't? This goes for the SCAM companies just as well.
Post by carole
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the
children", "are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
Interestingly enough, the first measles deaths in children in the UK for
years occurred after Wakefield's "research" had been made public, and the
resulting mass hysteria brought the vaccination rates down.
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Which is really no knowledge at all, Carole.
Wrong bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000
who died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with
having a pure bloodstream.
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518, and why
the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen
they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
It is indicative of something which was imported into the area. BTW,
Carole Native Americans seem to have a slight resistance to dimorphic
fungus which Europeans do not seem to have. It might be the 30-50,000
years of living with it.
Right, so you'd have slightly more immunity, seeing how you have a bit of
the native american heritage in you which you're so proud of, right?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in
history, the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox
epidemics amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the
19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they
try to kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have such
pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.
until some better evidence based solution comes along humanity will
stick with what works.
No bob, until the shysters and manipulators are put out of action and
innovation is no longer suppressed, we will be stuck with a system that
costs 15% of yearly domestic gross product and with a sicklier population
that most other countries that spend a fraction of it.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-20 16:28:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:21:49 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 09:44:04 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plague is a clean-cut case of bacterial infection as it responds
readily to antibiotics. There are no "alternative treatments" that
are effective against it.
Also, are you seriously trying to claim that all the _at least_ 25
million Europeans who died of it during the Black Death pandemic all
had "impure bloodstreams"?
=========================================
Yes, it is not so hard to imagine that 25 million europeans had
impure bloodstreams.
So why did they not succumb to the variety of maladies you claim
impure bloodstreams can cause? Why just this one disease?
Maybe something to do with the specific bacteria, maybe it multiplies
faster or produces a more virulent toxin.
Or maybe the fact it was injected into the bloodstream by the fleas at
so many locations.
Or a combination of these two factors.
Or maybe it was a new, not previously encountered pathogen. What would
point to this is the fact that even though there were recurring plague
epidemics, they never reached the mortality rate of the first one, as the
survivors had developed partial immunity - or were lucky enough to have the
mutated version of the gene CCR5 in the first place. This mutation shields
the ones who have it from both the plague and HIV infection.
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the
bacteria would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they mutate
according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in
36 hours that would pass any lab test.
has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not, then it's more
than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his laboratory
trashed.
And Carole you also posted an article which lead to statements that
doesn't support this story. Two of his microscopes are still in
existence, and one is considered in working order. But, no one can
get it to duplicate Rife's claims. And Carole, I suspect most of his
notes are still in existence.
No, its only one of his microscopes in working order in some museum I think.
It is in a lab. And It doesn't work as he claimed it worked. No one
can get it to perform in the manner he described in his notes. Yes
Carole they still have his notes and slide.
Post by carole
The others were trashed or had parts missing, yes?
The others were destroyed by the maker, Carole.
Post by carole
No bob, his notes were stolen, like with tesla after his death where most of
his journals were confiscated and locked away as they were rated top
security.
Telsa notes were turned over to his own foundation, per the
instruction in his will, upon his death. The recent return of his
notes to the a Serbia Museum was not according to his own bequest.

Telsa Notes were details and most can be found in the patent
archives. Telsa was a person that was brilliant but while he had
brilliant successes, he also had his share of failed inventions.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
Which doesn't actually fit the facts... you posted two different web
sites which contradict each other. Logic tells us the the two of
mutually exclusive by claim. Just one or the other could be right or
neither could be right, but both can not be right.
What was the contradiction bob?
The microscope and his notes were destroyed. but in the other one his
microscope is alive and well and being copied by someone else. (you
even missed the background reading which I reported that showed the
Company which claims to have reproduced Rife's microscope Can not
give a public demonstration showing the claimed results. The
production scopes they sell are no better than any others production
microscopes.

You seem to have trouble understanding what you read and post Carole.
or you do not have the requisite background knowledge to understand.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for yourself to
find other people who continue on similar things - if you are so interested.
Rife's Microscope claimed to do the impossible. and When he was shown
that is didn't work as claimed, I suspect the person that wrecked his
lab was Rife himself. No one, other than him, anything to gain
wrecking a piece of equipment, that didn't work.
When you say impossible, I take it you mean that it breaks the rules of what
is capable of normal light path.
I mean it can be shown that no matter what the wavelength is or
medium. The limiting factor of imaging it the wavelength of the
signal and the size of the object. This works for Light or sound
waves, Water waves, even earthquake waves. All wave tested so far.
The formula is something easy to derive.
Post by carole
Your wife must be a very patient person to put up with you.
She is, Carole. But then she is well educated, unlike you. She has
never stopped learning, again unlike you. She learned Logic and
critical thinking and learned to properly apply it in the real world,
again unlike you.
Post by carole
You should stick with her because I doubt if anybody else would put up with
your crap.
We've been together for 35 years so far. I don't think either of us
is interested in Lowering our Standards Carole. You'll have to look
elsewhere. This is the second time you have mentioned something along
those lines.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Common Sense and Logic rule, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this bacteria
or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from looking
further into it?
Becuase it deals which Evidence Based Medicine, Carole.
Whoopee!
But what would I do with the info bob?
LEarn from it. It is small lessons on how, where and why the
information came about being. The history of the disease, and how it
effected European and by extension world history.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of
tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This
to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your treatment
in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes we do Carole. It is the evidence.
You see bob, you say "we" -- you let others do your thinking.
I say that if it is a bacterial infection it may be able to be cured with
cellsalts.
You are welcome to infect yourself and try. Please leave a note on
your door so the biohazard teams can protect themselves when their
pick up your corpse.
Post by carole
After all bob, you display total ignorance in the area of cellsalts, toxemia
and blood purification.
I would say you are the person who is in full display Carole. Do you
know why so many people died? becuase cell salts and the rest of the
nonsense you spouted off didn't work then and doesn't work today.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections with
cellsalts.
But you failed to produce one bit of *evidence*. You don't even have
evidence of the Fungus infection you claimed to have had, Let alone
Evidence you got "rid" of it.
Yes, I have evidence bob.
No you don't what you have a testimonials and post hoc fallacies.
Evidence would be slides before and after treatment.

You have Zero.
Post by carole
Anybody who wants to try cellsalts out for themselves can do it firsthand.
And Carole the truth is in, You have no Evidence.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Because that all they had during those nasty plagues which killed so
many people.
Post by carole
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
It is mostly the point Carole.
Post by carole
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
No.
But you would say that nothing can be cured by purifying the bloodstream,
isn't that so bob?
The purifying the bloodstream is a myth, Carole. Make-believe. There
is not one bit of evidence to support that position Carole.

The Plural of Testimonial is not Data or Evidence.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by deliberately
infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for
this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
Becuase you do not know how evidence or tests are conducted, you are
like most people of faith you wouldn't change your beliefs and revise
the dogma even in the face of hard, unrefutable evidence.
I don't really give a rat's arse how the pharmaceutical business in disease
do their testing, and fabricate 1/2 of it too from what I gather.
Odd you should since you are repeating the Dogma as if it was a
religion.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal
Security Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust
for drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the
health of the American nation has sharply declined, especially among
children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller
Drug empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in
children including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring
rapidly to mind which were never issues 50 years ago.
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family. Also
remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum disorders have
been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are better than 50 years
ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
Based on what evidence? Most people having the wealth to seek
treatments?
Childhood allergies are on the increase ...more kids have allergies to food.
Really, and how do you know it isn't due to more doctors specializing
in those fields? More access to doctors means more reporting.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what constitutes
a healthy bloodstream.
Or your lack of critical thinking, Carole.
Or your ability to think for yourself outside your dumb-down university
teaching compliments of Rockefeller donations to all medical schools who
would include the pharmaceutical dogma of symptom suppression over a pure
bloodstream.
Sorry Carole you keep citing a web site which is full of unfounded
hearsay and Statements which have already been show to be loaded with
False Assumptions and Other Fallacies.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the
need for vaccinations against each and every disease that could
confront us?
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
So have lots of theories, but you have started using fallacies again.
Appeal to Tradition. The theory is old so it must be true, is a
fallacy. Remember Fallacies are Defects in logic and thinking,
Carole.
Many of the old theories existed before medicine became corrupted by the
pharmaceutical business with disease.
But it doesn't make them right. The Knowledge base changed and What
was once acceptable as commonly held belief is not required to have
evidence to support those claims. Just because people once believed
something to be true doesn't make it true.

There are literally thousands of things once held to be true, and
slowly, over time, have been shown to be false. A little more than
2000 years ago it was held to be true women were inferior to males.
That whites had superior intelligence and certain races were
genetically inferior. That was held true by many people and the World
fought a war over it. You might have read a little about WW2?

Now I will point out you made a statement just above here and I
isolated it for good reason. You goal is to actually find written
documentation fro reliable sources to support you claim.

<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting which
never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with cellsalts -
mainly reducing acidity.
Post Hoc Claim.
Post by carole
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
Continued Abuse of Defective Logic, Carole.
Whatever bob.
No, not "whatever", I just going to point out every time you slip
back into the defective logic and into you belief mode.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming'
the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response,
via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization.
Vaccinations involve the administration of one or more immunogens,
which can be administered in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Have you actually understood what it's all about?
You mean vaccinating for each and every disease that a person could become
infected with?
What is so hard to understand?
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha, it
has never been tested.
Because such a thing doesn't exist Carole.
In your mind bob.
Evidence it exists? While you are going about this, remember people
used to believe in Humors and bloodletting.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through becoming
acidic and pollutants from environment.
No that is your claim and assertion. it isn't a theory by any sense,
Carole.
Yes it is bob.
Not it isn't. It is belief, not a theory.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to prevent any
manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to create greater levels
of impurities with the drugs added and even greater level of impurities /
toxemia.
Pre-Eclampsia?
Of your brain bob and is going into a pre-eclampsia state.
Sorry Carole. You slipping again...
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely are you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint to
feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry paid
to schools of education?
But There are also massive donations from other people too. But not
bit of evidence of tampering with curriculum of the schools
Sorry bob, the story about the massive Rockefeller donations going back to
1900 is there.
It is a story, Carole. Not factual. Story is Fiction. You say it but
you do not even realize your subconscious self admission.
Post by carole
They also cut down the number of doctors and number of schools to 1/2,
donating only to those who would include pharmaceuticals in their
curriculum.
Really? And you know this is somehow true?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that Ehreth
article on how many life years are saved thanks to the vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew how to
detox themselves properly.
Detox is myth, Carole. there is zero evidence that shows it works
better than placebo treatments.
Sorry bob, there is the detox and its all about cellsalts.
Sorry carole, you are wring again.
Post by carole
Maybe there are other ways, but cellsalts work and I have a feeling that
Feeling? Feelings are emotional based, Evidence is what works Carole.
Not feelings, not Dogma, and not beliefs.
Post by carole
they used to be used quite widely before the pharmaceutical business with
And without evidence that worked at all. Lots of things were used and
most people died. Carole the average age of death for all males born
was a bout 37. it was 32 for females.
Post by carole
disease began their propaganda campaign against alternative medicine.
The so called campaign was all about removing snake oil and worthless
products of the market. It is all about false advertising. Con artist
are quick to make a claim and sell distilled water as a cure, Zappers
and even magnets, all for a quick buck.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something
no "alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of
the effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Since the word Allopath is a word which means all other than
Homeopathy, you statement ends up meaning nothing, Carole.
As I've said previously bob, the word "allopath" has several meanings, one
of which is a method of treating disease with remedies that produce effects
antagonistic to those caused by the disease itself. see
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/allopathy
Like I said before bob, many words can have more than one meaning. You need
to develop a more flexible mindset to understand such concepts.
But you refuse to drop the archaic use of the word toxemia, Carole.
you can not have it both ways carole.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.
Hun?
I take it you mean "Huh?"
For the sceptic that you are bob, I give you the following excerpt -
<refuted Citation removed>

Sorry Carole that source has been shown to be in error. Do try again.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
No argument with that.
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said
that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases
with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
People selling snake oil also make claims. Evidence is what allows
people to separate the true from false.
For instance, Carole Claims to have "got rid" of a foot fungus. She
has zero evidence of the Fungus before she treated it. And Zero post
treatment evidence she got rid of it.
And zero evidence that you can think for yourself apart from your "experts"
and "reliable sources".
Sorry Carole, I am simply refuting your claim as false. it was so
easy. You don't have any proof or evidence. you claim is as bogus as
any other Post Hoc based claim.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Using logic and critical thinking there should only be one conclusion
about Carole's Claim. It is False.
I don't know who you're talking to bob.
I don't think anybody would read these threads.
So now you are not anybody. Steelclaws and others are reading them. I
suspect lots of people in Australia are reading them now. If you
listen carefully you might hear them laughing. I have important news
Carole. that are not laughing with you, but at you.
Post by carole
I have the evidence that anybody can try for themselves to see if it doesn't
work to purify the bloodstream.
No you don't not have evidence.
Post by carole
I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with this system based on
cellsalts.
already falsified that claim, why do you keep pushing it.
Post by carole
1/2 tspn each of bicarb (sodium) and cream of tartar (potassium)
interspersed with calcium carbonate tablets (1 gram elemental calcium per
time), take it at intervals until symptoms subside.
Or death occurs?
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream is the only cure for disease (apparently).
Well pharmaceutical drugs aren't. They cure nothing and foster lifelong
dependence, side effects and death for some.
Sorry, you'r wrong and you simple cure will sooner of later cause you
death.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
Humanity has been moving away from nature ever since the first people
discovered how to use fire. It's been a major trend through all human
prehistory and history.
True.
And remember the closer to nature we are, the shorter lifespan will
become.
Yes, I agree. If we were meant to live naturally we'd be living under a tree
somewhere.
What I should have said is, why give kids so many injections when the only
antidote to disease is a pure bloodstream.
Which is a falsified claim.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the
market taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody
you're kidding yourself.
Selling a product that works brings return customers.
Post by carole
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
Which company isn't? This goes for the SCAM companies just as well.
Post by carole
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the
children", "are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
Interestingly enough, the first measles deaths in children in the UK for
years occurred after Wakefield's "research" had been made public, and the
resulting mass hysteria brought the vaccination rates down.
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Which is really no knowledge at all, Carole.
Wrong bob.
No Carole you're still wrong, and if you keep repeating that fallacy
it become the big lie. IT doesn't matter how many times you tell a
lie it is never true.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000
who died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with
having a pure bloodstream.
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518, and why
the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen
they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
It is indicative of something which was imported into the area. BTW,
Carole Native Americans seem to have a slight resistance to dimorphic
fungus which Europeans do not seem to have. It might be the 30-50,000
years of living with it.
Right, so you'd have slightly more immunity, seeing how you have a bit of
the native american heritage in you which you're so proud of, right?
Yes, that might be true, but since I live in a highly developed ag
area with lots of dust, I get blood tests for it on a yearly basis.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in
history, the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox
epidemics amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the
19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they
try to kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have such
pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.
until some better evidence based solution comes along humanity will
stick with what works.
No bob, until the shysters and manipulators are put out of action and
innovation is no longer suppressed, we will be stuck with a system that
costs 15% of yearly domestic gross product and with a sicklier population
that most other countries that spend a fraction of it.
Sorry the shysters are people touting cell salts as a cure all.
People like you will be held accountable in courts for giving medical
advice without the prerequisite background, training, education an
certification.

Carole do they allow criminal in your country access to the internet
from jail?
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-21 01:51:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:21:49 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
No, its only one of his microscopes in working order in some museum I think.
It is in a lab. And It doesn't work as he claimed it worked. No one
can get it to perform in the manner he described in his notes. Yes
Carole they still have his notes and slide.
I don't believe it bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
The others were trashed or had parts missing, yes?
The others were destroyed by the maker, Carole.
I take it you have proof of that statement?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
No bob, his notes were stolen, like with tesla after his death where most of
his journals were confiscated and locked away as they were rated top
security.
Telsa notes were turned over to his own foundation, per the
instruction in his will, upon his death. The recent return of his
notes to the a Serbia Museum was not according to his own bequest.
Telsa Notes were details and most can be found in the patent
archives. Telsa was a person that was brilliant but while he had
brilliant successes, he also had his share of failed inventions.
You lose credibility when you can't even get his name right.
Its Tesla.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
Which doesn't actually fit the facts... you posted two different web
sites which contradict each other. Logic tells us the the two of
mutually exclusive by claim. Just one or the other could be right or
neither could be right, but both can not be right.
What was the contradiction bob?
The microscope and his notes were destroyed. but in the other one his
microscope is alive and well and being copied by someone else. (you
even missed the background reading which I reported that showed the
Company which claims to have reproduced Rife's microscope Can not
give a public demonstration showing the claimed results. The
production scopes they sell are no better than any others production
microscopes.
They're probably guarded over what happened to Rife.
Can't blame them.
Post by Bob Officer
You seem to have trouble understanding what you read and post Carole.
or you do not have the requisite background knowledge to understand.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for yourself to
find other people who continue on similar things - if you are so interested.
Rife's Microscope claimed to do the impossible. and When he was shown
that is didn't work as claimed, I suspect the person that wrecked his
lab was Rife himself. No one, other than him, anything to gain
wrecking a piece of equipment, that didn't work.
When you say impossible, I take it you mean that it breaks the rules of what
is capable of normal light path.
I mean it can be shown that no matter what the wavelength is or
medium. The limiting factor of imaging it the wavelength of the
signal and the size of the object. This works for Light or sound
waves, Water waves, even earthquake waves. All wave tested so far.
The formula is something easy to derive.
Whatever bob.
There is technology that can get past the older limitations.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Your wife must be a very patient person to put up with you.
She is, Carole. But then she is well educated, unlike you. She has
never stopped learning, again unlike you. She learned Logic and
critical thinking and learned to properly apply it in the real world,
again unlike you.
She sounds like a nice person.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
You should stick with her because I doubt if anybody else would put up with
your crap.
We've been together for 35 years so far. I don't think either of us
is interested in Lowering our Standards Carole. You'll have to look
elsewhere. This is the second time you have mentioned something along
those lines.
I'm satisfied with my life the way it is but thanks for your concern.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Common Sense and Logic rule, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this bacteria
or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from looking
further into it?
Becuase it deals which Evidence Based Medicine, Carole.
Whoopee!
But what would I do with the info bob?
LEarn from it. It is small lessons on how, where and why the
information came about being. The history of the disease, and how it
effected European and by extension world history.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of
tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This
to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your treatment
in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes we do Carole. It is the evidence.
You see bob, you say "we" -- you let others do your thinking.
I say that if it is a bacterial infection it may be able to be cured with
cellsalts.
You are welcome to infect yourself and try. Please leave a note on
your door so the biohazard teams can protect themselves when their
pick up your corpse.
I already said I wouldn't risk it.
You obviously have problems with comprehension.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
After all bob, you display total ignorance in the area of cellsalts, toxemia
and blood purification.
I would say you are the person who is in full display Carole. Do you
know why so many people died? becuase cell salts and the rest of the
nonsense you spouted off didn't work then and doesn't work today.
But cellsalts only came about in the mid 1800s and maybe weren't even in
wide use.
So how would you know?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections with
cellsalts.
But you failed to produce one bit of *evidence*. You don't even have
evidence of the Fungus infection you claimed to have had, Let alone
Evidence you got "rid" of it.
Yes, I have evidence bob.
No you don't what you have a testimonials and post hoc fallacies.
Evidence would be slides before and after treatment.
You have Zero.
I have more than your pharmaceutical drugs, which half the tests are rigged
and the other half don't take into account long term use.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Anybody who wants to try cellsalts out for themselves can do it firsthand.
And Carole the truth is in, You have no Evidence.
Well hate to be the one to tell you bob, but you don't have anything either.
All your drugs are useless to cure anything, merely life-long management and
early death compliments of the Rockefeller drug cartel that made a name for
itself in nazi germany, doing experiments on prisoners.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Because that all they had during those nasty plagues which killed so
many people.
Post by carole
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
It is mostly the point Carole.
Post by carole
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
No.
But you would say that nothing can be cured by purifying the bloodstream,
isn't that so bob?
The purifying the bloodstream is a myth, Carole. Make-believe. There
is not one bit of evidence to support that position Carole.
There is nothing to show that your drugs are the right way to go either.
Post by Bob Officer
The Plural of Testimonial is not Data or Evidence.
And massive donations to medical schools gives loss of credibility to pharma
drugs.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by deliberately
infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for
this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
Becuase you do not know how evidence or tests are conducted, you are
like most people of faith you wouldn't change your beliefs and revise
the dogma even in the face of hard, unrefutable evidence.
I don't really give a rat's arse how the pharmaceutical business in disease
do their testing, and fabricate 1/2 of it too from what I gather.
Odd you should since you are repeating the Dogma as if it was a
religion.
Like you bob. The religion of absorption and regurgitation.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal
Security Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust
for drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the
health of the American nation has sharply declined, especially among
children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller
Drug empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in
children including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring
rapidly to mind which were never issues 50 years ago.
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family. Also
remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum disorders have
been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are better than 50 years
ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
Based on what evidence? Most people having the wealth to seek
treatments?
Childhood allergies are on the increase ...more kids have allergies to food.
Really, and how do you know it isn't due to more doctors specializing
in those fields? More access to doctors means more reporting.
Because there aren't more doctors.
The Rockefeller system is to limit the number of doctors and medical
schools.
What is scarce they then can raise the price of.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what constitutes
a healthy bloodstream.
Or your lack of critical thinking, Carole.
Or your ability to think for yourself outside your dumb-down university
teaching compliments of Rockefeller donations to all medical schools who
would include the pharmaceutical dogma of symptom suppression over a pure
bloodstream.
Sorry Carole you keep citing a web site which is full of unfounded
hearsay and Statements which have already been show to be loaded with
False Assumptions and Other Fallacies.
Must be similar to your pharmaceutical infiltrated ones then, hey?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the
need for vaccinations against each and every disease that could
confront us?
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
So have lots of theories, but you have started using fallacies again.
Appeal to Tradition. The theory is old so it must be true, is a
fallacy. Remember Fallacies are Defects in logic and thinking,
Carole.
Many of the old theories existed before medicine became corrupted by the
pharmaceutical business with disease.
But it doesn't make them right. The Knowledge base changed and What
was once acceptable as commonly held belief is not required to have
evidence to support those claims. Just because people once believed
something to be true doesn't make it true.
True. But just because Rockefeller paid big bucks to medical schools for
changes to their curriculums doesn't make it true either.
And you do know that Jenner bought his medical degree don't you?
Post by Bob Officer
There are literally thousands of things once held to be true, and
slowly, over time, have been shown to be false. A little more than
2000 years ago it was held to be true women were inferior to males.
That whites had superior intelligence and certain races were
genetically inferior. That was held true by many people and the World
fought a war over it. You might have read a little about WW2?
Now I will point out you made a statement just above here and I
isolated it for good reason. You goal is to actually find written
documentation fro reliable sources to support you claim.
Yeah sure.
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting which
never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with cellsalts -
mainly reducing acidity.
Post Hoc Claim.
Post by carole
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
Continued Abuse of Defective Logic, Carole.
Whatever bob.
No, not "whatever", I just going to point out every time you slip
back into the defective logic and into you belief mode.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming'
the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response,
via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization.
Vaccinations involve the administration of one or more immunogens,
which can be administered in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Have you actually understood what it's all about?
You mean vaccinating for each and every disease that a person could become
infected with?
What is so hard to understand?
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha, it
has never been tested.
Because such a thing doesn't exist Carole.
In your mind bob.
Evidence it exists? While you are going about this, remember people
used to believe in Humors and bloodletting.
But we're talking about deficiencies bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through becoming
acidic and pollutants from environment.
No that is your claim and assertion. it isn't a theory by any sense,
Carole.
Yes it is bob.
Not it isn't. It is belief, not a theory.
No its not.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to prevent any
manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to create greater levels
of impurities with the drugs added and even greater level of impurities /
toxemia.
Pre-Eclampsia?
Of your brain bob and is going into a pre-eclampsia state.
Sorry Carole. You slipping again...
And spelling is going again
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely
are
you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint to
feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry paid
to schools of education?
But There are also massive donations from other people too. But not
bit of evidence of tampering with curriculum of the schools
Sorry bob, the story about the massive Rockefeller donations going back to
1900 is there.
It is a story, Carole. Not factual. Story is Fiction. You say it but
you do not even realize your subconscious self admission.
No its not.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
They also cut down the number of doctors and number of schools to 1/2,
donating only to those who would include pharmaceuticals in their
curriculum.
Really? And you know this is somehow true?
Sure, its full of corruption and big payouts to anybody who supports big
pharma.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that Ehreth
article on how many life years are saved thanks to the vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew how to
detox themselves properly.
Detox is myth, Carole. there is zero evidence that shows it works
better than placebo treatments.
Sorry bob, there is the detox and its all about cellsalts.
Sorry carole, you are wring again.
No I'm not bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Maybe there are other ways, but cellsalts work and I have a feeling that
Feeling? Feelings are emotional based, Evidence is what works Carole.
Not feelings, not Dogma, and not beliefs.
Whatever bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
they used to be used quite widely before the pharmaceutical business with
And without evidence that worked at all. Lots of things were used and
most people died. Carole the average age of death for all males born
was a bout 37. it was 32 for females.
The history of vaccination is doctored bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
disease began their propaganda campaign against alternative medicine.
The so called campaign was all about removing snake oil and worthless
products of the market. It is all about false advertising. Con artist
are quick to make a claim and sell distilled water as a cure, Zappers
and even magnets, all for a quick buck.
Wrong bob. There has been a concerted campaign to get rid of all alternative
medicines.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something
no "alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of
the effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Since the word Allopath is a word which means all other than
Homeopathy, you statement ends up meaning nothing, Carole.
As I've said previously bob, the word "allopath" has several meanings, one
of which is a method of treating disease with remedies that produce effects
antagonistic to those caused by the disease itself. see
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/allopathy
Like I said before bob, many words can have more than one meaning. You need
to develop a more flexible mindset to understand such concepts.
But you refuse to drop the archaic use of the word toxemia, Carole.
you can not have it both ways carole.
Sorry bob, its in the dictionary. There is more than one meaning.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.
Hun?
I take it you mean "Huh?"
For the sceptic that you are bob, I give you the following excerpt -
<refuted Citation removed>
Sorry Carole that source has been shown to be in error. Do try again.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
No argument with that.
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said
that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases
with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
People selling snake oil also make claims. Evidence is what allows
people to separate the true from false.
For instance, Carole Claims to have "got rid" of a foot fungus. She
has zero evidence of the Fungus before she treated it. And Zero post
treatment evidence she got rid of it.
And zero evidence that you can think for yourself apart from your "experts"
and "reliable sources".
Sorry Carole, I am simply refuting your claim as false. it was so
easy. You don't have any proof or evidence. you claim is as bogus as
any other Post Hoc based claim.
Your whole pharmaceutical industry is based on corruption bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Using logic and critical thinking there should only be one conclusion
about Carole's Claim. It is False.
I don't know who you're talking to bob.
I don't think anybody would read these threads.
So now you are not anybody. Steelclaws and others are reading them. I
suspect lots of people in Australia are reading them now. If you
listen carefully you might hear them laughing. I have important news
Carole. that are not laughing with you, but at you.
Or you maybe.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I have the evidence that anybody can try for themselves to see if it doesn't
work to purify the bloodstream.
No you don't not have evidence.
People aren't all stupid bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with this system based on
cellsalts.
already falsified that claim, why do you keep pushing it.
Why not bob?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
1/2 tspn each of bicarb (sodium) and cream of tartar (potassium)
interspersed with calcium carbonate tablets (1 gram elemental calcium per
time), take it at intervals until symptoms subside.
Or death occurs?
Not as soon as pharmaceutical drugs.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream is the only cure for disease (apparently).
Well pharmaceutical drugs aren't. They cure nothing and foster lifelong
dependence, side effects and death for some.
Sorry, you'r wrong and you simple cure will sooner of later cause you
death.
Probably later rather than sooner bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
Humanity has been moving away from nature ever since the first people
discovered how to use fire. It's been a major trend through all human
prehistory and history.
True.
And remember the closer to nature we are, the shorter lifespan will
become.
Yes, I agree. If we were meant to live naturally we'd be living under a tree
somewhere.
What I should have said is, why give kids so many injections when the only
antidote to disease is a pure bloodstream.
Which is a falsified claim.
Can you prove that, with slides?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the
market taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody
you're kidding yourself.
Selling a product that works brings return customers.
Post by carole
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
Which company isn't? This goes for the SCAM companies just as well.
Post by carole
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the
children", "are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
Interestingly enough, the first measles deaths in children in the UK for
years occurred after Wakefield's "research" had been made public, and the
resulting mass hysteria brought the vaccination rates down.
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Which is really no knowledge at all, Carole.
Wrong bob.
No Carole you're still wrong, and if you keep repeating that fallacy
it become the big lie. IT doesn't matter how many times you tell a
lie it is never true.
Then you'd better not keep pushing pharmaceutical solutions bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000
who died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with
having a pure bloodstream.
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518, and why
the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen
they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
It is indicative of something which was imported into the area. BTW,
Carole Native Americans seem to have a slight resistance to dimorphic
fungus which Europeans do not seem to have. It might be the 30-50,000
years of living with it.
Right, so you'd have slightly more immunity, seeing how you have a bit of
the native american heritage in you which you're so proud of, right?
Yes, that might be true, but since I live in a highly developed ag
area with lots of dust, I get blood tests for it on a yearly basis.
That's nice.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in
history, the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox
epidemics amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the
19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they
try to kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have such
pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.
until some better evidence based solution comes along humanity will
stick with what works.
No bob, until the shysters and manipulators are put out of action and
innovation is no longer suppressed, we will be stuck with a system that
costs 15% of yearly domestic gross product and with a sicklier population
that most other countries that spend a fraction of it.
bye bob
Go and count your rocks

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-21 03:12:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:51:15 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:21:49 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
No, its only one of his microscopes in working order in some museum I think.
It is in a lab. And It doesn't work as he claimed it worked. No one
can get it to perform in the manner he described in his notes. Yes
Carole they still have his notes and slide.
I don't believe it bob.
Why not Carole?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
The others were trashed or had parts missing, yes?
The others were destroyed by the maker, Carole.
I take it you have proof of that statement?
As much as you have. They're listed in catalog contents.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
No bob, his notes were stolen, like with tesla after his death where most of
his journals were confiscated and locked away as they were rated top
security.
Telsa notes were turned over to his own foundation, per the
instruction in his will, upon his death. The recent return of his
notes to the a Serbia Museum was not according to his own bequest.
Telsa Notes were details and most can be found in the patent
archives. Telsa was a person that was brilliant but while he had
brilliant successes, he also had his share of failed inventions.
You lose credibility when you can't even get his name right.
Its Tesla.
However you don't lose anything when you can't tell fact from
fiction?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
Which doesn't actually fit the facts... you posted two different web
sites which contradict each other. Logic tells us the the two of
mutually exclusive by claim. Just one or the other could be right or
neither could be right, but both can not be right.
What was the contradiction bob?
The microscope and his notes were destroyed. but in the other one his
microscope is alive and well and being copied by someone else. (you
even missed the background reading which I reported that showed the
Company which claims to have reproduced Rife's microscope Can not
give a public demonstration showing the claimed results. The
production scopes they sell are no better than any others production
microscopes.
They're probably guarded over what happened to Rife.
Can't blame them.
Why Don't you use common sense. They Can not meet the claims that
have made. The fish starts to stink, doesn't it?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
You seem to have trouble understanding what you read and post Carole.
or you do not have the requisite background knowledge to understand.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for yourself to
find other people who continue on similar things - if you are so interested.
Rife's Microscope claimed to do the impossible. and When he was shown
that is didn't work as claimed, I suspect the person that wrecked his
lab was Rife himself. No one, other than him, anything to gain
wrecking a piece of equipment, that didn't work.
When you say impossible, I take it you mean that it breaks the rules of
what is capable of normal light path.
I mean it can be shown that no matter what the wavelength is or
medium. The limiting factor of imaging it the wavelength of the
signal and the size of the object. This works for Light or sound
waves, Water waves, even earthquake waves. All wave tested so far.
The formula is something easy to derive.
Whatever bob.
There is technology that can get past the older limitations.
IT is called electron microscopes. Even phased light sources in the
visible light have the same limitations. Phased light sources have
limiting depth of field, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Your wife must be a very patient person to put up with you.
She is, Carole. But then she is well educated, unlike you. She has
never stopped learning, again unlike you. She learned Logic and
critical thinking and learned to properly apply it in the real world,
again unlike you.
She sounds like a nice person.
She has been my best friend for over 35 years.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
You should stick with her because I doubt if anybody else would put up with
your crap.
We've been together for 35 years so far. I don't think either of us
is interested in Lowering our Standards Carole. You'll have to look
elsewhere. This is the second time you have mentioned something along
those lines.
I'm satisfied with my life the way it is but thanks for your concern.
Well that's fine. I have always sought to improve. I am not
satisfied, I am curious and questioning. I am always ready to learn.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Common Sense and Logic rule, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this bacteria
or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from looking
further into it?
Becuase it deals which Evidence Based Medicine, Carole.
Whoopee!
But what would I do with the info bob?
LEarn from it. It is small lessons on how, where and why the
information came about being. The history of the disease, and how it
effected European and by extension world history.
Even Carole you could learn how the Columbian Exchange shows you the
pure blood is wrong. It is called Deductive Reasoning.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream of
tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets. This
to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your treatment
in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes we do Carole. It is the evidence.
You see bob, you say "we" -- you let others do your thinking.
I say that if it is a bacterial infection it may be able to be cured with
cellsalts.
You are welcome to infect yourself and try. Please leave a note on
your door so the biohazard teams can protect themselves when their
pick up your corpse.
I already said I wouldn't risk it.
Doesn't it look like your faith is lacking?
Post by carole
You obviously have problems with comprehension.
No, I don't. Keep saying aloud, If and May... see you are already
starting to deny your faith in cell salts and pure blood.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
After all bob, you display total ignorance in the area of cellsalts, toxemia
and blood purification.
I would say you are the person who is in full display Carole. Do you
know why so many people died? becuase cell salts and the rest of the
nonsense you spouted off didn't work then and doesn't work today.
But cellsalts only came about in the mid 1800s and maybe weren't even in
wide use.
So how would you know?
Really, Carole are you so sure? Or the only time you have read about
in english, the manuscripts date from the 1800?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections with
cellsalts.
But you failed to produce one bit of *evidence*. You don't even have
evidence of the Fungus infection you claimed to have had, Let alone
Evidence you got "rid" of it.
Yes, I have evidence bob.
No you don't what you have a testimonials and post hoc fallacies.
Evidence would be slides before and after treatment.
You have Zero.
I have more than your pharmaceutical drugs, which half the tests are rigged
and the other half don't take into account long term use.
Sounds like you are just making claims you can't prove again. Or are
they bold face lies?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Anybody who wants to try cellsalts out for themselves can do it firsthand.
And Carole the truth is in, You have no Evidence.
Well hate to be the one to tell you bob, but you don't have anything either.
All your drugs are useless to cure anything, merely life-long management and
early death compliments of the Rockefeller drug cartel that made a name for
itself in nazi germany, doing experiments on prisoners.
Actually Carole the fungicides work very well. And BTW, I done
Godwin Time.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Because that all they had during those nasty plagues which killed so
many people.
Post by carole
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
It is mostly the point Carole.
Post by carole
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
No.
But you would say that nothing can be cured by purifying the bloodstream,
isn't that so bob?
The purifying the bloodstream is a myth, Carole. Make-believe. There
is not one bit of evidence to support that position Carole.
There is nothing to show that your drugs are the right way to go either.
Sorry, Carole Before and After Slides show the Fungicides work.
That's called Evidence. That is far more than you have and this
exchange has been a temper tantrum on your part.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
The Plural of Testimonial is not Data or Evidence.
And massive donations to medical schools gives loss of credibility to pharma
drugs.
No it doesn't becuase while you bake allegations you have nothing, No
evidence to support the claim of control.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by deliberately
infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for
this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
Becuase you do not know how evidence or tests are conducted, you are
like most people of faith you wouldn't change your beliefs and revise
the dogma even in the face of hard, unrefutable evidence.
I don't really give a rat's arse how the pharmaceutical business in disease
do their testing, and fabricate 1/2 of it too from what I gather.
Odd you should since you are repeating the Dogma as if it was a
religion.
Like you bob. The religion of absorption and regurgitation.
Knowledge of how science works, Critical thinking and Logic. Evidence
and facts.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
But statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal
Security Agency show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust
for drugging, vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the
health of the American nation has sharply declined, especially among
children.
References, please.
That was written maybe 50 years ago, and is part of the Rockefeller
Drug empire article by Hans Ruesch.
However, these days there are more manifestations of ill health in
children including allergies and autism, two conditions that spring
rapidly to mind which were never issues 50 years ago.
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family. Also
remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum disorders have
been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are better than 50 years
ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
Based on what evidence? Most people having the wealth to seek
treatments?
Childhood allergies are on the increase ...more kids have allergies to food.
Really, and how do you know it isn't due to more doctors specializing
in those fields? More access to doctors means more reporting.
Because there aren't more doctors.
The Rockefeller system is to limit the number of doctors and medical
schools.
What is scarce they then can raise the price of.
Most people do not want to put in the 14 years of education required
to become a doctor. The hours are long and hard, and there are too
many lazy people. (sort of like you, Carole) Being a medical doctor
requires the use of logic and critical thinking. Something which is
in short supply.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what constitutes
a healthy bloodstream.
Or your lack of critical thinking, Carole.
Or your ability to think for yourself outside your dumb-down university
teaching compliments of Rockefeller donations to all medical schools who
would include the pharmaceutical dogma of symptom suppression over a pure
bloodstream.
Sorry Carole you keep citing a web site which is full of unfounded
hearsay and Statements which have already been show to be loaded with
False Assumptions and Other Fallacies.
Must be similar to your pharmaceutical infiltrated ones then, hey?
No they are called crank sites for a reason Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is one of the most important inventions in preventive
medicine, and whoever wrote that does not have a clue how vaccination
works.
So we're all told, repeatedly over and over.
But if a pure bloodstream is the solution for all that ails, why the
need for vaccinations against each and every disease that could
confront us?
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
So have lots of theories, but you have started using fallacies again.
Appeal to Tradition. The theory is old so it must be true, is a
fallacy. Remember Fallacies are Defects in logic and thinking,
Carole.
Many of the old theories existed before medicine became corrupted by the
pharmaceutical business with disease.
But it doesn't make them right. The Knowledge base changed and What
was once acceptable as commonly held belief is not required to have
evidence to support those claims. Just because people once believed
something to be true doesn't make it true.
True. But just because Rockefeller paid big bucks to medical schools for
changes to their curriculums doesn't make it true either.
And you do know that Jenner bought his medical degree don't you?
You keep coming back to the same story. one that is mostly
unsupported by evidence, Carole. Most of what you say is conjecture.

AS far as Jenner? He was an apprentice Surgeon. Which was the
accepted mode of training at the time for surgeons in England.

As far as his degree, Jenner went to school at St George's University
of London.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
There are literally thousands of things once held to be true, and
slowly, over time, have been shown to be false. A little more than
2000 years ago it was held to be true women were inferior to males.
That whites had superior intelligence and certain races were
genetically inferior. That was held true by many people and the World
fought a war over it. You might have read a little about WW2?
Now I will point out you made a statement just above here and I
isolated it for good reason. You goal is to actually find written
documentation fro reliable sources to support you claim.
Yeah sure.
I see you just don't care Carole. I guess you think ignorance is
bliss.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting which
never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with cellsalts -
mainly reducing acidity.
Post Hoc Claim.
Post by carole
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
Continued Abuse of Defective Logic, Carole.
Whatever bob.
No, not "whatever", I just going to point out every time you slip
back into the defective logic and into you belief mode.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination is the process of artificial induction of immunity, in an
effort to protect against infectious disease. It works by 'priming'
the immune system with an 'immunogen'. Stimulating immune response,
via use of an infectious agent, is known as immunization.
Vaccinations involve the administration of one or more immunogens,
which can be administered in several forms.
Yes, we've all heard about vaccination as the holy grail of medicine.
Have you actually understood what it's all about?
You mean vaccinating for each and every disease that a person could become
infected with?
What is so hard to understand?
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha, it
has never been tested.
Because such a thing doesn't exist Carole.
In your mind bob.
Evidence it exists? While you are going about this, remember people
used to believe in Humors and bloodletting.
But we're talking about deficiencies bob.
You haven't shown any deficiencies exist, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through becoming
acidic and pollutants from environment.
No that is your claim and assertion. it isn't a theory by any sense,
Carole.
Yes it is bob.
Not it isn't. It is belief, not a theory.
No its not.
Yes it is. And the belief in dogmatic in nature.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to prevent any
manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to create greater levels
of impurities with the drugs added and even greater level of impurities /
toxemia.
Pre-Eclampsia?
Of your brain bob and is going into a pre-eclampsia state.
Sorry Carole. You slipping again...
And spelling is going again
So what it won't matter to you, becuase no matter what a spell you
will not get the point. it is becuase you are Stupid by habit.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about the
global value of vaccination: http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely
are
you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint to
feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry paid
to schools of education?
But There are also massive donations from other people too. But not
bit of evidence of tampering with curriculum of the schools
Sorry bob, the story about the massive Rockefeller donations going back to
1900 is there.
It is a story, Carole. Not factual. Story is Fiction. You say it but
you do not even realize your subconscious self admission.
No its not.
Yes it Carole. The write makes unfounded assertions and lots of
assumptions not backed by evidence.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
They also cut down the number of doctors and number of schools to 1/2,
donating only to those who would include pharmaceuticals in their
curriculum.
Really? And you know this is somehow true?
Sure, its full of corruption and big payouts to anybody who supports big
pharma.
Shakes head. do you count beads every time you say that Carole?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that Ehreth
article on how many life years are saved thanks to the vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew how to
detox themselves properly.
Detox is myth, Carole. there is zero evidence that shows it works
better than placebo treatments.
Sorry bob, there is the detox and its all about cellsalts.
Sorry carole, you are wring again.
No I'm not bob.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Maybe there are other ways, but cellsalts work and I have a feeling that
Feeling? Feelings are emotional based, Evidence is what works Carole.
Not feelings, not Dogma, and not beliefs.
Whatever bob.
Feelings are not evidence and not facts.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
they used to be used quite widely before the pharmaceutical business with
And without evidence that worked at all. Lots of things were used and
most people died. Carole the average age of death for all males born
was a bout 37. it was 32 for females.
The history of vaccination is doctored bob.
The deaths and length of people's lives are recorded, tombstones and
death records Carole. Too many to change them all.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
disease began their propaganda campaign against alternative medicine.
The so called campaign was all about removing snake oil and worthless
products of the market. It is all about false advertising. Con artist
are quick to make a claim and sell distilled water as a cure, Zappers
and even magnets, all for a quick buck.
Wrong bob. There has been a concerted campaign to get rid of all alternative
medicines.
And again you can not back your claim with any supporting evidence,
Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccination has been able to eradicate smallpox, and that's something
no "alternative" medical hypothesis can claim. Here are statistics of
the effect of vaccination on a few smallpox epidemics, and I can
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Since the word Allopath is a word which means all other than
Homeopathy, you statement ends up meaning nothing, Carole.
As I've said previously bob, the word "allopath" has several meanings, one
of which is a method of treating disease with remedies that produce effects
antagonistic to those caused by the disease itself. see
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/allopathy
Like I said before bob, many words can have more than one meaning. You need
to develop a more flexible mindset to understand such concepts.
But you refuse to drop the archaic use of the word toxemia, Carole.
you can not have it both ways carole.
Sorry bob, its in the dictionary. There is more than one meaning.
One is archaic the other modern. Try a real paper based dictionary or
one that has the Etymology information included.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.
Hun?
I take it you mean "Huh?"
For the sceptic that you are bob, I give you the following excerpt -
<refuted Citation removed>
Sorry Carole that source has been shown to be in error. Do try again.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
<snip>
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Yes, vaccinations save lives, but so also does good nutrition.
No argument with that.
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it said
that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood diseases
with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
People selling snake oil also make claims. Evidence is what allows
people to separate the true from false.
For instance, Carole Claims to have "got rid" of a foot fungus. She
has zero evidence of the Fungus before she treated it. And Zero post
treatment evidence she got rid of it.
And zero evidence that you can think for yourself apart from your "experts"
and "reliable sources".
Sorry Carole, I am simply refuting your claim as false. it was so
easy. You don't have any proof or evidence. you claim is as bogus as
any other Post Hoc based claim.
Your whole pharmaceutical industry is based on corruption bob.
And your evidence is what again? Sorry carole all you have is
feelings and fallacies.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Using logic and critical thinking there should only be one conclusion
about Carole's Claim. It is False.
I don't know who you're talking to bob.
I don't think anybody would read these threads.
So now you are not anybody. Steelclaws and others are reading them. I
suspect lots of people in Australia are reading them now. If you
listen carefully you might hear them laughing. I have important news
Carole. that are not laughing with you, but at you.
Or you maybe.
Maybe. I suspect that are laughing at you.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I have the evidence that anybody can try for themselves to see if it doesn't
work to purify the bloodstream.
No you don't not have evidence.
People aren't all stupid bob.
I am not talking about people. I am talking about you Carole. The
Stupid one here is you.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with this system based on
cellsalts.
already falsified that claim, why do you keep pushing it.
Why not bob?
Becuase has been falsified. Without evidence it is an empty and
worthless claim.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
1/2 tspn each of bicarb (sodium) and cream of tartar (potassium)
interspersed with calcium carbonate tablets (1 gram elemental calcium per
time), take it at intervals until symptoms subside.
Or death occurs?
Not as soon as pharmaceutical drugs.
Could be much sooner, Carole Fungus often spreads to other parts of
the body, mucus membranes and bowel and nasal passage.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream is the only cure for disease (apparently).
Well pharmaceutical drugs aren't. They cure nothing and foster lifelong
dependence, side effects and death for some.
Sorry, you'r wrong and you simple cure will sooner of later cause you
death.
Probably later rather than sooner bob.
It will happen Carole. Fungus eat constantly even when they are not
blooming.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think its moving away from nature to give these kids so many
injections for everything under the sun.
Humanity has been moving away from nature ever since the first people
discovered how to use fire. It's been a major trend through all human
prehistory and history.
True.
And remember the closer to nature we are, the shorter lifespan will
become.
Yes, I agree. If we were meant to live naturally we'd be living under a tree
somewhere.
What I should have said is, why give kids so many injections when the only
antidote to disease is a pure bloodstream.
Which is a falsified claim.
Can you prove that, with slides?
The burden of proof on the part of claimant, That's you Carole. Trot
out your proof so far you are batting Zero.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
And we all know that conventional medicine has this corner of the
market taken over with their "concern for the health of children".
If you really believe they are concerned for the health of anybody
you're kidding yourself.
Selling a product that works brings return customers.
Post by carole
All they are concerned about it big bucks.
Which company isn't? This goes for the SCAM companies just as well.
Post by carole
"Oh, oh," I hear the conventional mob say, "we must protect the
children", "are you a child killer?" etc blah, blah!
Interestingly enough, the first measles deaths in children in the UK for
years occurred after Wakefield's "research" had been made public, and the
resulting mass hysteria brought the vaccination rates down.
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Which is really no knowledge at all, Carole.
Wrong bob.
No Carole you're still wrong, and if you keep repeating that fallacy
it become the big lie. IT doesn't matter how many times you tell a
lie it is never true.
Then you'd better not keep pushing pharmaceutical solutions bob.
The Studies support Evidence based medicine. you have no evidence
Carole only your own says o. and really Carole your mouth is busy
making one unfounded statement after another.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That Hispaniola epidemic of 1518 is the most interesting case in that
data when it comes to the "soil theory". The 299,000 of the 300,000
who died of it were Native Americans, who lived very naturally.
I don't think that living naturally is necessarily synonymous with
having a pure bloodstream.
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518, and why
the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a pathogen
they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
It is indicative of something which was imported into the area. BTW,
Carole Native Americans seem to have a slight resistance to dimorphic
fungus which Europeans do not seem to have. It might be the 30-50,000
years of living with it.
Right, so you'd have slightly more immunity, seeing how you have a bit of
the native american heritage in you which you're so proud of, right?
Yes, that might be true, but since I live in a highly developed ag
area with lots of dust, I get blood tests for it on a yearly basis.
That's nice.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
This is what happens when a population with no immunity against a
disease encounters it. It has happened time and time again in
history, the best-known examples being the Black Death, the smallpox
epidemics amongst Native Americans and the cholera epidemics of the
19th century.
From my POV conventional medicine has got it all wrong.
They have completely overlooked the value of a pure bloodstream. they
try to kill the germ instead of improving the internal milieu.
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have such
pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.
until some better evidence based solution comes along humanity will
stick with what works.
No bob, until the shysters and manipulators are put out of action and
innovation is no longer suppressed, we will be stuck with a system that
costs 15% of yearly domestic gross product and with a sicklier population
that most other countries that spend a fraction of it.
bye bob
Go and count your rocks
Actually I am going kayaking.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-21 10:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 11:51:15 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:21:49 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
No, its only one of his microscopes in working order in some museum I think.
It is in a lab. And It doesn't work as he claimed it worked. No one
can get it to perform in the manner he described in his notes. Yes
Carole they still have his notes and slide.
I don't believe it bob.
Why not Carole?
Because the truth is suppressed bob.
Tell me about deep underground military bases bob.
The truth is you can't handle certain theories and just find trashing them
easier.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
The others were trashed or had parts missing, yes?
The others were destroyed by the maker, Carole.
I take it you have proof of that statement?
As much as you have. They're listed in catalog contents.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
No bob, his notes were stolen, like with tesla after his death where
most
of
his journals were confiscated and locked away as they were rated top
security.
Telsa notes were turned over to his own foundation, per the
instruction in his will, upon his death. The recent return of his
notes to the a Serbia Museum was not according to his own bequest.
Telsa Notes were details and most can be found in the patent
archives. Telsa was a person that was brilliant but while he had
brilliant successes, he also had his share of failed inventions.
You lose credibility when you can't even get his name right.
Its Tesla.
<deleted some stuff for brevity>
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
bye bob
Go and count your rocks
Actually I am going kayaking.
Sounds nice.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Post by Bob Officer
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Peter Bowditch
2010-08-22 00:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Tell me about deep underground military bases bob.
I've found the entrance to one, and someone has offered to take me to
see more.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/history/2010/06june.htm#5ufos
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
I'm @RatbagsDotCom on Twitter
Steelclaws
2010-08-20 09:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Or maybe it was a new, not previously encountered pathogen. What
would point to this is the fact that even though there were recurring
plague epidemics, they never reached the mortality rate of the first
one, as the survivors had developed partial immunity - or were lucky
enough to have the
mutated version of the gene CCR5 in the first place. This mutation
shields the ones who have it from both the plague and HIV infection.
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
This is correct. However, it does not answer the question about why
first contact pathogens are so lethal if it's dependent on pure
bloodstream.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the
bacteria would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they
mutate according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in
36 hours that would pass any lab test.
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the
question: has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not,
then it's more than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his laboratory
trashed.
Which would not stop anyone from re-creating Rife's experiment, since
his claims are available.
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for
yourself to find other people who continue on similar things - if you
are so interested.
I don't have or work in a laboratory, so it would be impractical for me.
But I take this to mean you weren't able to find anyone who has been
able - or even tried to - duplicate Rife's research.

Moreover, given that it's likely as Rife's book was published in 1953,
he was not aware of bacterial DNA. His claim would mean that bacteria
would be able to rewrite their DNA completely in a different
environment, and it has never been observed to happen.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this
bacteria or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from
looking further into it?
The benefit would be in increasing your knowledge about the things you
wish to speculate about. It's always a good idea to know about what you
talk about.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream
of tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets.
This to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your
treatment in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes, I do know that. Those are the survival rates for the forms left
untreated.
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections
with cellsalts.
And you still have your fungal infection, as you yourself have said you
have a recurring fungal infection.

Or are you trying to claim that you get re-infected with the same fungus
after getting rid of it?
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by
deliberately infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary
for this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
As I've said before, anecdotes are valid starting points for looking
further into a claim. Were you able to do it, researchers would be most
likely very interested in looking into it. You'd need to show, though,
that you managed to clear it faster than the normal recovery time
without treatment would be.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family.
Also remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum
disorders have been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are
better than 50 years ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what
constitutes a healthy bloodstream.
One possible cause I've seen would be improved hygiene - as
counterindicative as that sounds - since there appears to be correlation
on exposure to allergens through changes in way of living.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613351
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting
which never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with
cellsalts - mainly reducing acidity.
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
I said valid evidence. You should know by now I don't credit anecdotes
for much.
Post by carole
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
That's what I've been asking.
Post by carole
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha,
it has never been tested.
So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through
becoming acidic and pollutants from environment.
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to
prevent any manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to
create greater levels of impurities with the drugs added and even
greater level of impurities / toxemia.
You yourself said this is a hypothesis - it's not a theory, btw, not in
the scientific sense - that has been around for a long time. So why
hasn't it been tested, since everything from acupuncture to homeopathy
has been?

What does "pure bloodstream" mean in the first place? The term is a bit
vague.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about
http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely are you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint
to feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry
paid to schools of education?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Also, in real life, there is plenty of
nutrition information available from creditable sources for parents.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/childnutrition.html for starters. Go
through that, and just tell me what you think would be wrong with that
advice.

My guess - and yes, it's a guess - some parents just do not care about
what their kids eat, or are too plain lazy or ignorant to find out what
would be the best for their kids.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that
Ehreth article on how many life years are saved thanks to the
vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew
how to detox themselves properly.
Nutrition is no defense against some pathogens. Those 24 million
Europeans who died of Y. pestis infection ate very varied diets, as the
peasant and nobility diets were highly different. Regional diets also
varied quite a lot, but none of that made any difference to the
mortality rate in different societal and geographical groups and
subgroups.

I've already shown you that detox is a myth except in some very specific
cases.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Anti-vax people simply do not have any valid evidence for their
overblown claims. The best they could come up with was Wakefield's
thoroughly flawed and discredited "research".

Yes, we know vaccines can cause side effects, but serious ones are very
rare indeed.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.
Vaccines do not work on everyone, that is known. But they are effective
in roughly 99% of the cases.
Post by carole
Rewriting medical history
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pharmaceutical_industry
There is a surprising amount of medical documentation of vaccine
failure. Measles, mumps, small pox, polio and Hib outbreaks have all
occurred in vaccinated populations.
Let's take a look at the references then...

[24] Measles outbreak in 31 schools: risk factors for vaccine failure
and evaluation of a selective revaccination strategy., 150(7):1093-8,
Canadian Medical Association Journal, April 1994

"MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Risk of measles associated with age at
vaccination, time since vaccination, vaccination before 1980 and
revaccination.

RESULTS: Subjects vaccinated before 12 months of age were at greater
risk of measles than those vaccinated later (adjusted odds ratio [OR]
7.7, 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.6 to 38.3; p = 0.01). Those
vaccinated between 12 and 14 months of age were at no greater risk than
those vaccinated at 15 months or over. Subjects vaccinated before 1980
were at greater risk than those vaccinated after 1980 (adjusted OR 14.5,
95% CI 1.5 to 135.6). Time since vaccination was not a risk factor.
Revaccination was effective in reducing the risk of measles in both
subjects vaccinated before 1980 and those vaccinated after 1980
(adjusted OR reduced to 0.6 [95% CI 0.1 to 5.3] and 0.3 [95% CI 0.13 to
2.6] respectively). However, only 18 cases were estimated to have been
prevented by this strategy.

CONCLUSIONS: Adherence to routine measles vaccination for all eligible
children is important in ensuring appropriate coverage with a single
dose. The selective revaccination strategy's high labour intensiveness
and low measles prevention rate during the outbreak bring into question
the effectiveness of such a strategy."

[25] Haemophilus b disease after vaccination with Haemophilus b
polysaccharide and conjugate vaccine, , 145(12):1379-82, American
Journal of Diseases of Children, December 1991

"Approximately three cases of early-onset disease (disease developing
less than 15 days after vaccination) per million doses were reported for
the polysaccharide compared with four cases per million doses for the
conjugate vaccine. There were 30.7 reported vaccine failures per million
doses of the polysaccharide vaccine compared with 9.0 per million doses
of the conjugate vaccine, a 3.4-fold difference. The reporting rate
ratios (cases of vaccine failure to cases of early-onset disease) for
the polysaccharide and conjugate were 11.5 and 2.3, respectively, a
fivefold difference. Thus, compared with recipients of the
polysaccharide vaccine, vaccine failures reported among recipients of
the conjugate vaccine were 80% fewer than expected."

So this article really says that the conjugate vaccine was more
effective than expected.

[26] Sustained transmission of mumps in a highly vaccinated population:
assessment of primary vaccine failure and waning vaccine-induced
immunity., 169(1):77-82, Journal of Infectious Diseases, Jan 1994

"From January to July 1991, an outbreak of mumps occurred in Maury
County, Tennessee. At the primarily affected high school, where 98% of
students and all but 1 student with mumps had been vaccinated before the
outbreak, 68 mumps cases occurred among 1116 students (attack rate,
6.1%). Students vaccinated before 1988 (the first year mumps vaccination
was required for school attendance in Tennessee) may have been at
greater risk of mumps than those vaccinated later (65[6.1%] of 1001 vs.
2[2.2%] of 89; risk ratio, 2.9; 95% confidence interval, 0.7-11.6). Of
13 persons with confirmed mumps who underwent serologic testing, 3
lacked IgM antibody in well-timed acute- and convalescent-phase serum
specimens. Vaccine failure accounted for a sustained mumps outbreak in a
highly vaccinated population. Most mumps cases were attributable to
primary vaccine failure. It is possible that waning vaccine-induced
immunity also played a role."

So it appears there was a vaccine failure, but other factors may have
been at work. At best, it could be used as an argument for booster
shots.


[27] Secondary measles vaccine failure in healthcare workers exposed to
infected patients.

"OBJECTIVE: To describe 4 healthcare workers who developed measles
despite pre-existing antimeasles antibody levels.

DESIGN: Hospital employees working in patient care areas from July
through November 1990 were screened for measles antibody levels using a
commercially available enzyme immunoassay (EIA). The clinical course and
laboratory evaluation of the 4 healthcare workers who developed measles
were reviewed.

SETTING: An academic tertiary care children's hospital.

PARTICIPANTS: A convenience sample of resident physicians, nurses, ward
clerks, Child Life workers, physical and occupational therapists,
radiology technicians, and housekeeping staff were screened regardless
of age, immunization status, or history of measles infection.

RESULTS: Of 1,311 employees working in patient care areas, 900 (68.6%)
had sera tested for measles antibody. Fourteen (1.5%) were negative, 338
(37.6%) had low positive antibody levels, 372 (41.3%) were mid-positive,
and 171 (19%) were high-positive; 5 (0.6%) showed equivocal results.
Four healthcare workers vaccinated in the past developed measles. All
had positive pre-illness measles antibody levels and all had a
significant rise in measles-specific IgG following infection. Three of
the them had received at least 2 live measles vaccinations prior to
caring for patients with measles.

CONCLUSIONS: These cases raise concerns regarding detection of adequate
protective measles immunity. We recommend that all healthcare workers
observe respiratory precautions in caring for patients with measles."

That's 4 out of 1,311...

Frankly, after checking those references, I'm very unlikely to accept
Sourcewatch's claims for anything.
Post by carole
On March 29, 2008, CDC chief Julie Gerberding admitted that vaccines
trigger autism in a subset of the population with mitochondrial
disorders on CNN's House Call with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. (right)
Hmmm... There was no reference associated with that claim. I wonder
why...
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it
said that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood
diseases with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
They do provide a service or sell a product, for heaven's sake! Or did
you think "natural healing" came for free?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Where did you get that knowledge from?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518,
and why the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a
pathogen they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
Present evidence that such a thing exists in general, and that it did
exist in them specifically.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have
such pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.
Vaccination did eradicate smallpox, and that is not contestable. It is
no longer vaccinated against.
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
carole
2010-08-20 17:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Or maybe it was a new, not previously encountered pathogen. What
would point to this is the fact that even though there were recurring
plague epidemics, they never reached the mortality rate of the first
one, as the survivors had developed partial immunity - or were lucky
enough to have the
mutated version of the gene CCR5 in the first place. This mutation
shields the ones who have it from both the plague and HIV infection.
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
This is correct. However, it does not answer the question about why
first contact pathogens are so lethal if it's dependent on pure
bloodstream.
You're trying to play the old immunity and natural protection that
vaccinations bring, right?
Sorry, I'm not falling for it.
That old line has been flogged to death and is big pharma's last stand.

Yes, you can go and immunise the 3rd world who live at subsistence level on
1/2 cup of rice or sago or whatever a day.
You can probably save lots of lives in that situation, but don't call big
pharma heros for doing it when their only motive is profit.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
However, if a person with a pure bloodstream got infected, the
bacteria would mutate into a harmless form.
According to Rife there are 10 basic forms of bacteria and they
mutate according to their environment.
Rife claimed to be able to make a bacteria into a pathogenic form in
36 hours that would pass any lab test.
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the
question: has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not,
then it's more than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his laboratory
trashed.
Which would not stop anyone from re-creating Rife's experiment, since
his claims are available.
Apparently he turned to the bottle after that.
Rife was a genius and that was his thing. He thought he had something great
to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
It was outside his scope of understanding when thugs and shysters were more
interested in money than in curing disease.
And these people are with us today, still heading up the organisations and
putting out their propaganda that there is no alternative to allopathic
medicine.
And that's all it is, plain and simple --- propaganda and lies!
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for
yourself to find other people who continue on similar things - if you
are so interested.
I don't have or work in a laboratory, so it would be impractical for me.
But I take this to mean you weren't able to find anyone who has been
able - or even tried to - duplicate Rife's research.
Do you mean personally, or on the internet?
I think there are people continuing on with Rife's research.
There are people working on the microscopes here and there, and there are
people using radiowave frequencies to zap bugs. Hulda Clark was one wasn't
she?
I haven't looked into it in any big way.
Its a little outside my area of interest although I am curious about various
bugs.

My interest is a toxemia, pure bloodstream and acidosis.
I think the body can get rid of bugs itself with the right cellsalt combo.
It took me 20 years to figure it out though.
My theory is that all those oldies with porous bones have had the minerals
taken from their bones to keep them healthy. The bones are their health
bank.
Once the bank is empty, they have nothing left to fall back on.
And a lot of these oldies have deficient diets - white bread toast and
marmalade, corn beef and mashed potatoes, a few cups of tea for their
calcium.
Post by Steelclaws
Moreover, given that it's likely as Rife's book was published in 1953,
he was not aware of bacterial DNA. His claim would mean that bacteria
would be able to rewrite their DNA completely in a different
environment, and it has never been observed to happen.
The bugs are pleomorphic.
There are 10 basic forms which change according to their environment. When
the body becomes toxic they turn pathogenic and vice versa.

I don't think that DNA is as fixed as science thinks.

http://www.xenophilia.com/zb0012d.htm

"Over the past century physicians such as William Russell, Wilhelm Reich,
James Young, John Nuzum, Virginia Livingston, and numerous other
researchers, have reported on the existence of a specific bacterium
associated with cancer. The microbe is an ubiquitous, pleomorphic, cell wall
deficient ("mycoplasma-like") organism with a complex life cycle. In its
various guises, the microbe may resemble staphylococci, diphtheroids,
bacilli, fungi, host cell inclusions, viruses, and Russell bodies" [ 88 | 89
| 90 | 91 ]
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, then, why did they not die of any other diseases in such
numbers? Why did it take this one particular disease to cause a
pandemic of such mortality rate and in such easily definable period
of time?
I don't know enough about characteristics of individual bacteria
spercies. There'd probably be something different about this
bacteria or the way it was injected.
Don't speculate, find out... Y. pestis is very well researched.
Remind me why I want to know this information and what benefit from
looking further into it?
The benefit would be in increasing your knowledge about the things you
wish to speculate about. It's always a good idea to know about what you
talk about.
I suppose.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and cream
of tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate tablets.
This to be repeated at intervals until the infection subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your
treatment in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes, I do know that. Those are the survival rates for the forms left
untreated.
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and infections
with cellsalts.
And you still have your fungal infection, as you yourself have said you
have a recurring fungal infection.
Yes it recurs however, with each occurrence it gets less which was also the
case with my housedust allergy. Which eventually disappeared.
Also the objective is to maintain a pure bloodstream. The athletes foot is
merely an indication that my bloodstream is becoming toxic.
Using a fungicide is suppressing the symptoms which is fine in a way, but
not ideal.
The ideal is to purify the bloodstream because then you are preventing
further chance of illness down the track.
With suppression you merely invite troubles of a more serious nature later
on.

This is the nature cure system that was taught before the pharmaceutical
business with disease began its campaign to DDT and eliminate all
alternative forms of medicine.
Post by Steelclaws
Or are you trying to claim that you get re-infected with the same fungus
after getting rid of it?
As I said, like my housedust allergies, one day it will disappear for good
and then there will be something else.
Its called the retracing process or Herring's law which says that diseases
disappear in reverse order of their appearance (over a person's life of
building disease), from inside to the outside (toxins are pushed towards the
skin away from vital organs), and from the head down to the feet.

So obviously I'm on the tail end of things as its the skin (outermost) and
the feet (the lowest).
One can only speculate what will happen next, maybe it starts back at the
top again ...ha ha (a little joke).
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Pure speculation is my evidence.
If cellsalts can cure the bloodstream and stop infections, fungi and
parasites which is no mean feat, maybe they can stop any bacterial disease.
Has it been tried?
Not that I've ever heard.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by
deliberately infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary
for this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
As I've said before, anecdotes are valid starting points for looking
further into a claim. Were you able to do it, researchers would be most
likely very interested in looking into it. You'd need to show, though,
that you managed to clear it faster than the normal recovery time
without treatment would be.
Well I'm not going to do any double blind studies as I don't consider it
necessary when anybody can test it for themselves.
These are all commonly available affordable ingredients.
Its no big deal for any person to test for themselves.
I'm not a great believer in the great pharmaceutical rigors or double blind
studies and all their bureacracy and manipulations.
They are corrupt beyond having any confidence in their systems and are
mainly designed to exclude anything that would threaten their profits.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Allergies existed 50 years ago, and so did autism. 50 years ago such
children were kept in institutions, or hidded away by the family.
Also remember that the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum
disorders have been broadened and that the diagnostic methods are
better than 50 years ago.
True. But allergies are definitely on the increase.
I would suggest this is due to the lack of knowledge about what
constitutes a healthy bloodstream.
One possible cause I've seen would be improved hygiene - as
counterindicative as that sounds - since there appears to be correlation
on exposure to allergens through changes in way of living.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613351
Yes, I've heard the theory that kids who play in dirt and mix with animals
have less allergies.
They seem to provide some sort of natural immunity.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
That is a mighty big if. Please present valid evidence that "pure
bloodstream" is the solution.
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say fasting
which never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with
cellsalts - mainly reducing acidity.
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
I said valid evidence. You should know by now I don't credit anecdotes
for much.
The cellsalt theory has been used by nature cure / naturapaths since
mid/late 1800s.
It is a system of medicine worked out by schuessler.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
That's what I've been asking.
Its news to me if anybody has ever used this system.
Maybe going right back to 1900 or something like that before
pharmaceuticals.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
And what was the criteria used for having a "pure bloodstream". Ah ha,
it has never been tested.
So my hypothesis is that people develop impure bloodstreams through
becoming acidic and pollutants from environment.
Then instead of purifying their bloodstream, they take drugs to
prevent any manifestation of the impurities, which then goes on to
create greater levels of impurities with the drugs added and even
greater level of impurities / toxemia.
You yourself said this is a hypothesis - it's not a theory, btw, not in
the scientific sense - that has been around for a long time. So why
hasn't it been tested, since everything from acupuncture to homeopathy
has been?
What does "pure bloodstream" mean in the first place? The term is a bit
vague.
A pure bloodstream is that condition where fungi, bacteria and parasites
are knocked out.

A pure bloodstream only cure
www.worldwithoutparasites.com/drug_empire.html
"To teach the Rockefeller drug ideology, it is necessary to teach that
Nature didn't know what she was doing when she made the human body. But
statistics issued by the Children's Bureau of the Federal Security Agency
show that since the all-out drive of the Drug Trust for drugging,
vaccinating and serumizing the human system, the health of the American
nation has sharply declined, especially among children. Children are now
given "shots" for this and "shots" for that, when the only safeguard known
to science is **a pure bloodstream**, which can be obtained only with clean
air and wholesome food. Meaning by natural and inexpensive means. Just what
the Drug Trust most objects to."
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You might like to read this article, as it goes into detail about
http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf
Isn't it interesting how we have enough concern to vaccinate all the
children, but not enough concern to feed them properly?
I think that vaccination is probably part of the pharmaceutical racket.
Proper diet for the kids is dependent on the parents. Who precisely are you
blaming here? Some global conspiracy that forces parents on gunpoint
to feed crap food to their kids?
Haven't you read about the massive donations the Rockefeller industry
paid to schools of education?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Also, in real life, there is plenty of
nutrition information available from creditable sources for parents.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/childnutrition.html for starters. Go
through that, and just tell me what you think would be wrong with that
advice.
That sounds ideal diet advice --except needs more calcium.
Post by Steelclaws
My guess - and yes, it's a guess - some parents just do not care about
what their kids eat, or are too plain lazy or ignorant to find out what
would be the best for their kids.
There are a lot of parents who feed their children well, but also many who
don't.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Vaccines - at least in here - are free for the patient. Read that
Ehreth article on how many life years are saved thanks to the
vaccines.
The vaccine industry profits are about $24 billion, while the whole
pharmaceutical industry profits are about $643 billion. This makes it clear
vaccines are not the major profit generators for pharmaceutical companies.
Yes, vaccines save lives.
But they would be irrelevant if people had proper nutrition and knew
how to detox themselves properly.
Nutrition is no defense against some pathogens. Those 24 million
Europeans who died of Y. pestis infection ate very varied diets, as the
peasant and nobility diets were highly different. Regional diets also
varied quite a lot, but none of that made any difference to the
mortality rate in different societal and geographical groups and
subgroups.
Yes, but how pure were their bloodstreams?
eg if they had parasites it is an indication they didn't.
People can eat well, enough protein, carbs, fruit and veg and still have a
level of toxemia.
I know the ancient egyptians used to have parasites, their bones show
evidence.
Post by Steelclaws
I've already shown you that detox is a myth except in some very specific
cases.
But who really understands the goal of detox is a pure bloodstream and what
that means?
These days the objective of detox is to cleanse the body, spring clean, get
rid of impurities, ..etc
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Vaccination is a very controversial issue.
Only in the minds of the anti-vax people.
But not in the minds of the brain-washed allopaths?
Anti-vax people simply do not have any valid evidence for their
overblown claims. The best they could come up with was Wakefield's
thoroughly flawed and discredited "research".
I don't have any great rants against vaccination ...my only claim is that
you can't vaccinate against ill health.
Post by Steelclaws
Yes, we know vaccines can cause side effects, but serious ones are very
rare indeed.
True, and they do seem to save lives in the third world.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
We don't really know the hidden cost of pumping people full of
vaccinations for anything and everything.
Vaccinations have been going on since 18th century, ever since Jenner
performed the first vaccinations with cowpox. You'd kinda think the adverse
effects would have been noticed by now.
And its not commonly known that they aren't as effective as people think.
Vaccines do not work on everyone, that is known. But they are effective
in roughly 99% of the cases.
Who knows the cumulative side effects or the efficacy of vaccinations?
I don't have any great theories about the topic.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Rewriting medical history
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Pharmaceutical_industry
There is a surprising amount of medical documentation of vaccine
failure. Measles, mumps, small pox, polio and Hib outbreaks have all
occurred in vaccinated populations.
Let's take a look at the references then...
[24] Measles outbreak in 31 schools: risk factors for vaccine failure
and evaluation of a selective revaccination strategy., 150(7):1093-8,
Canadian Medical Association Journal, April 1994
"MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Risk of measles associated with age at
vaccination, time since vaccination, vaccination before 1980 and
revaccination.
RESULTS: Subjects vaccinated before 12 months of age were at greater
risk of measles than those vaccinated later (adjusted odds ratio [OR]
7.7, 95% confidence interval [CI] 1.6 to 38.3; p = 0.01). Those
vaccinated between 12 and 14 months of age were at no greater risk than
those vaccinated at 15 months or over. Subjects vaccinated before 1980
were at greater risk than those vaccinated after 1980 (adjusted OR 14.5,
95% CI 1.5 to 135.6). Time since vaccination was not a risk factor.
Revaccination was effective in reducing the risk of measles in both
subjects vaccinated before 1980 and those vaccinated after 1980
(adjusted OR reduced to 0.6 [95% CI 0.1 to 5.3] and 0.3 [95% CI 0.13 to
2.6] respectively). However, only 18 cases were estimated to have been
prevented by this strategy.
CONCLUSIONS: Adherence to routine measles vaccination for all eligible
children is important in ensuring appropriate coverage with a single
dose. The selective revaccination strategy's high labour intensiveness
and low measles prevention rate during the outbreak bring into question
the effectiveness of such a strategy."
[25] Haemophilus b disease after vaccination with Haemophilus b
polysaccharide and conjugate vaccine, , 145(12):1379-82, American
Journal of Diseases of Children, December 1991
"Approximately three cases of early-onset disease (disease developing
less than 15 days after vaccination) per million doses were reported for
the polysaccharide compared with four cases per million doses for the
conjugate vaccine. There were 30.7 reported vaccine failures per million
doses of the polysaccharide vaccine compared with 9.0 per million doses
of the conjugate vaccine, a 3.4-fold difference. The reporting rate
ratios (cases of vaccine failure to cases of early-onset disease) for
the polysaccharide and conjugate were 11.5 and 2.3, respectively, a
fivefold difference. Thus, compared with recipients of the
polysaccharide vaccine, vaccine failures reported among recipients of
the conjugate vaccine were 80% fewer than expected."
So this article really says that the conjugate vaccine was more
effective than expected.
assessment of primary vaccine failure and waning vaccine-induced
immunity., 169(1):77-82, Journal of Infectious Diseases, Jan 1994
"From January to July 1991, an outbreak of mumps occurred in Maury
County, Tennessee. At the primarily affected high school, where 98% of
students and all but 1 student with mumps had been vaccinated before the
outbreak, 68 mumps cases occurred among 1116 students (attack rate,
6.1%). Students vaccinated before 1988 (the first year mumps vaccination
was required for school attendance in Tennessee) may have been at
greater risk of mumps than those vaccinated later (65[6.1%] of 1001 vs.
2[2.2%] of 89; risk ratio, 2.9; 95% confidence interval, 0.7-11.6). Of
13 persons with confirmed mumps who underwent serologic testing, 3
lacked IgM antibody in well-timed acute- and convalescent-phase serum
specimens. Vaccine failure accounted for a sustained mumps outbreak in a
highly vaccinated population. Most mumps cases were attributable to
primary vaccine failure. It is possible that waning vaccine-induced
immunity also played a role."
So it appears there was a vaccine failure, but other factors may have
been at work. At best, it could be used as an argument for booster
shots.
[27] Secondary measles vaccine failure in healthcare workers exposed to
infected patients.
"OBJECTIVE: To describe 4 healthcare workers who developed measles
despite pre-existing antimeasles antibody levels.
DESIGN: Hospital employees working in patient care areas from July
through November 1990 were screened for measles antibody levels using a
commercially available enzyme immunoassay (EIA). The clinical course and
laboratory evaluation of the 4 healthcare workers who developed measles
were reviewed.
SETTING: An academic tertiary care children's hospital.
PARTICIPANTS: A convenience sample of resident physicians, nurses, ward
clerks, Child Life workers, physical and occupational therapists,
radiology technicians, and housekeeping staff were screened regardless
of age, immunization status, or history of measles infection.
RESULTS: Of 1,311 employees working in patient care areas, 900 (68.6%)
had sera tested for measles antibody. Fourteen (1.5%) were negative, 338
(37.6%) had low positive antibody levels, 372 (41.3%) were mid-positive,
and 171 (19%) were high-positive; 5 (0.6%) showed equivocal results.
Four healthcare workers vaccinated in the past developed measles. All
had positive pre-illness measles antibody levels and all had a
significant rise in measles-specific IgG following infection. Three of
the them had received at least 2 live measles vaccinations prior to
caring for patients with measles.
CONCLUSIONS: These cases raise concerns regarding detection of adequate
protective measles immunity. We recommend that all healthcare workers
observe respiratory precautions in caring for patients with measles."
That's 4 out of 1,311...
Frankly, after checking those references, I'm very unlikely to accept
Sourcewatch's claims for anything.
I'm surprised.
I've read detrimental things about vaccination from time to time.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
On March 29, 2008, CDC chief Julie Gerberding admitted that vaccines
trigger autism in a subset of the population with mitochondrial
disorders on CNN's House Call with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. (right)
Hmmm... There was no reference associated with that claim. I wonder
why...
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Look vaccination is not my area of interest, but I have heard it
said that the nature cure people could handle all these childhood
diseases with natural remedies.
People with services or products to sell will make such claims.
People with ability to heal by natural means will also make such claims.
They do provide a service or sell a product, for heaven's sake! Or did
you think "natural healing" came for free?
No, these are the principles these orthopathic people follow.
Their ideas are freely available.
Except with specific treatment of things like diptheria or polio, might be
harder to find.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I just think there are most likely other, less potentially harmful
ways to protect children that have no doubt, been suppressed by the
drug mob.
Your evidence for that would be?
Knowledge of toxemia and pure blood stream.
Where did you get that knowledge from?
There are many orthopath type people across the alternative health area who
believe this stuff about a pure bloodstream, toxemia, acidity.
It was all common knowledge before the pharmaceutical era and still is.
Bernard Jenkins ND and iridologist, Paul Bragg vegetarian and faster, DrCee
orthopath, who posts in this ng from time to time, and various others.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I wonder what did keep all 300,000 of them alive just before 1518,
and why the epidemic left only about 1,000 survivors?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Either, in 1518 all but 1000 of them all of a sudden developed
"impure bloodstreams" or their immune systems encountered a
pathogen they had no resistance for and which killed most of them.
Maybe it was one of bob's dimorphic fungis.
Well whatever.
Doesn't mean they didn't have impure bloodstreams though does it?
Present evidence that such a thing exists in general, and that it did
exist in them specifically.
You'd have to dig up some bones and see if there were parasite damage, like
in egypt where they say all the egyptians had some parasite that used ravage
their bones.
It is most probably that these people who got the plague did have parasites,
everybody has them.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Remember, the major killer pandemics happened before the advent of science-
based medicine. What can you blame for them, as you don't have
pharmaceutical industry to blame? Why is it that we no longer have
such pandemics of these diseases?
Maybe vaccinations, improved nutrition, better housing.
However, vaccinations are a stop gap measure and not the ultimate solution.
Vaccination did eradicate smallpox, and that is not contestable. It is
no longer vaccinated against.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/05/05/vaccination-smallpox.aspx

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Steelclaws
2010-08-21 09:57:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
This is correct. However, it does not answer the question about why
first contact pathogens are so lethal if it's dependent on pure
bloodstream.
You're trying to play the old immunity and natural protection that
vaccinations bring, right?
There were NO vaccinations back in the Middle Ages, so that cannot be a
factor! Try and learn at least _something_ about the history of
medicine.

Now try again - and without your "Big Pharma" screed this time.

Why were first contact pathogens so lethal, if "pure bloodstream" is
effective against infections?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the
question: has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not,
then it's more than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html

It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Which would not stop anyone from re-creating Rife's experiment, since
his claims are available.
Apparently he turned to the bottle after that.
Rife was a genius and that was his thing.
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his devices
have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in existence,
nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to make
such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for
yourself to find other people who continue on similar things - if
you are so interested.
I don't have or work in a laboratory, so it would be impractical for
me. But I take this to mean you weren't able to find anyone who has
been able - or even tried to - duplicate Rife's research.
Do you mean personally, or on the internet?
I think there are people continuing on with Rife's research.
Since I can find people getting convicted for fraud when they sell Rife
devices and make fraudulent health claims, looks like you're completely
wrong about Rife's "discoveries" being unavailable today.

http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/44/2/115.pdf
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20071221
&slug=indictment21m
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2 This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
Post by carole
There are people working on the microscopes here and there, and there
are people using radiowave frequencies to zap bugs. Hulda Clark was
one wasn't she?
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not generate
radiowaves.
Post by carole
My interest is a toxemia, pure bloodstream and acidosis.
I think the body can get rid of bugs itself with the right cellsalt
combo. It took me 20 years to figure it out though.
My theory is that all those oldies with porous bones have had the
minerals taken from their bones to keep them healthy. The bones are
their health bank.
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental pathogenetic
mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a) failure to
achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and development;
(b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone mass and
disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost bone due to
defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known to play a
critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while calcium and
vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism also
contribute. There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition to
the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth factors,
and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number of genes have
been associated with differences in bone mass and fragility. It is now
possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess fracture risk, and reduce that
risk with antiresorptive or other available therapies. However, new and
more effective approaches are likely to emerge from a better
understanding of the regulators of bone cell function."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Post by carole
Once the bank is empty, they have nothing left to fall back on.
And a lot of these oldies have deficient diets - white bread toast and
marmalade, corn beef and mashed potatoes, a few cups of tea for their
calcium.
Vitamin D and calcium deficiency can be a factor in osteoporosis, but
loss of bone density is not treatable with minerals and vitamins except
calcium and vitamin D in those cases.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Moreover, given that it's likely as Rife's book was published in
1953, he was not aware of bacterial DNA. His claim would mean that
bacteria would be able to rewrite their DNA completely in a different
environment, and it has never been observed to happen.
The bugs are pleomorphic.
There are 10 basic forms which change according to their environment.
When the body becomes toxic they turn pathogenic and vice versa.
As usual, how about citing some _valid_ research instead of just making
claims? A peer-reviewed article will do nicely.
Post by carole
I don't think that DNA is as fixed as science thinks.
http://www.xenophilia.com/zb0012d.htm
"Over the past century physicians such as William Russell, Wilhelm
Reich, James Young, John Nuzum, Virginia Livingston, and numerous
other researchers, have reported on the existence of a specific
bacterium associated with cancer. The microbe is an ubiquitous,
pleomorphic, cell wall deficient ("mycoplasma-like") organism with a
complex life cycle. In its various guises, the microbe may resemble
staphylococci, diphtheroids, bacilli, fungi, host cell inclusions,
viruses, and Russell bodies" [ 88 | 89
| 90 | 91 ]
Reference 88 went to a fibromyalgia site that had nary a word about any
bacteria causing cancer.

89 goes to a page of a guy who believes AIDS is a cancer. So much for
his credibility then.

90 is not available.

91 is the AIDS crank again.

Sorry, that is an unreliable source, judging by the references.

Your site also has nothing to do with DNA and how mutable it is or not.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and
cream of tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate
tablets. This to be repeated at intervals until the infection
subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your
treatment in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes, I do know that. Those are the survival rates for the forms left
untreated.
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and
infections with cellsalts.
And you still have your fungal infection, as you yourself have said
you have a recurring fungal infection.
Yes it recurs however, with each occurrence it gets less which was
also the case with my housedust allergy. Which eventually disappeared.
Also the objective is to maintain a pure bloodstream. The athletes
foot is merely an indication that my bloodstream is becoming toxic.
Using a fungicide is suppressing the symptoms which is fine in a way,
but not ideal.
Fungcides kill the fungus that is causing the symptoms. It goes directly
to the cause.

Did you not know that fungi are external infections? Your body does not
produce the fungus.
Post by carole
This is the nature cure system that was taught before the
pharmaceutical business with disease began its campaign to DDT and
eliminate all alternative forms of medicine.
Like there _were_ any "alternative" forms of medicine... There is only
medicine, meaning that which can be shown to work and then there is
quackery, which cannot be shown to work.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
Post by carole
If cellsalts can cure the bloodstream and stop infections, fungi and
parasites which is no mean feat, maybe they can stop any bacterial
disease. Has it been tried?
Not that I've ever heard.
That is a mighty big if. Since you admit you have only pure speculation,
I will treat it just as I treat any pure speculation: interesting idea,
but needs to be researched.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by
deliberately infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary
for this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
As I've said before, anecdotes are valid starting points for looking
further into a claim. Were you able to do it, researchers would be
most likely very interested in looking into it. You'd need to show,
though, that you managed to clear it faster than the normal recovery
time without treatment would be.
Well I'm not going to do any double blind studies as I don't consider
it necessary when anybody can test it for themselves.
I've already explained why anecdotes are not evidence, and why research
is necessary. How do you discount how much your faith in the treatment
affects the perceived outcome? IOW, how do you discount the placebo
effect? (Yes, I know you can't accept the reality of placebo, as that
makes your little speculation very doubtful.)
Post by carole
These are all commonly available affordable ingredients.
Its no big deal for any person to test for themselves.
I'm not a great believer in the great pharmaceutical rigors or double
blind studies and all their bureacracy and manipulations.
I can understand why... Rigorous testing just might show you've invested
a lot of time and effort on nothing.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say
fasting which never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with
cellsalts - mainly reducing acidity.
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
I said valid evidence. You should know by now I don't credit
anecdotes for much.
The cellsalt theory has been used by nature cure / naturapaths since
mid/late 1800s.
It is a system of medicine worked out by schuessler.
Argument by age. It's a fallacy, you know, and not valid evidence.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
That's what I've been asking.
Its news to me if anybody has ever used this system.
Maybe going right back to 1900 or something like that before
pharmaceuticals.
Don't guess, find out if anyone has.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
What does "pure bloodstream" mean in the first place? The term is a
bit vague.
A pure bloodstream is that condition where fungi, bacteria and parasites
are knocked out.
So nobody has it then? Also, what makes it different from immune system
- which we do know about and also about how it works?

[paranoia snipped, I have no interest in dealing with conspiracy
screeds]
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/childnutrition.html for starters.
Go through that, and just tell me what you think would be wrong with
that advice.
That sounds ideal diet advice --except needs more calcium.
Milk was recommended in it, and milk is a source of calcium.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Nutrition is no defense against some pathogens. Those 24 million
Europeans who died of Y. pestis infection ate very varied diets, as
the peasant and nobility diets were highly different. Regional diets
also varied quite a lot, but none of that made any difference to the
mortality rate in different societal and geographical groups and
subgroups.
Yes, but how pure were their bloodstreams?
eg if they had parasites it is an indication they didn't.
Do you have the slightest idea how parasites have evolved and how they
attach to a host? Or what it takes to get rid of them?
Post by carole
I know the ancient egyptians used to have parasites, their bones show
evidence.
Mostly bilharzia. Do you know what that is and how it gets to a host?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Yes, we know vaccines can cause side effects, but serious ones are
very rare indeed.
True, and they do seem to save lives in the third world.
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start again.
Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids are again
dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
carole
2010-08-21 10:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
This is correct. However, it does not answer the question about why
first contact pathogens are so lethal if it's dependent on pure
bloodstream.
You're trying to play the old immunity and natural protection that
vaccinations bring, right?
There were NO vaccinations back in the Middle Ages, so that cannot be a
factor! Try and learn at least _something_ about the history of
medicine.
Now try again - and without your "Big Pharma" screed this time.
Why were first contact pathogens so lethal, if "pure bloodstream" is
effective against infections?
Why is it that bacteria don't kill everybody, even when introduced into in a
new population?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the
question: has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not,
then it's more than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Which would not stop anyone from re-creating Rife's experiment, since
his claims are available.
Apparently he turned to the bottle after that.
Rife was a genius and that was his thing.
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his devices
have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in existence,
nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Regardless, why was there a concerted campaign by organised medicine to stop
him?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to make
such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
It is merely spin by big pharma that his microscope didn't work.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for
yourself to find other people who continue on similar things - if
you are so interested.
I don't have or work in a laboratory, so it would be impractical for
me. But I take this to mean you weren't able to find anyone who has
been able - or even tried to - duplicate Rife's research.
Do you mean personally, or on the internet?
I think there are people continuing on with Rife's research.
Since I can find people getting convicted for fraud when they sell Rife
devices and make fraudulent health claims, looks like you're completely
wrong about Rife's "discoveries" being unavailable today.
Oh so the persecution against rife's treatments continues.
So let me get this right.
He stole his own notes and wrecked his own equipment because .....?
And persecution continues today against his discoveries by who?

I'm afraid the story you've been fed doesn't add up.
Post by Steelclaws
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/44/2/115.pdf
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20071221
&slug=indictment21m
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2 This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
Sorry, I don't read pharmaceutical propaganda.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
There are people working on the microscopes here and there, and there
are people using radiowave frequencies to zap bugs. Hulda Clark was
one wasn't she?
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not generate
radiowaves.
Ok then. So what's your problem?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
My interest is a toxemia, pure bloodstream and acidosis.
I think the body can get rid of bugs itself with the right cellsalt
combo. It took me 20 years to figure it out though.
My theory is that all those oldies with porous bones have had the
minerals taken from their bones to keep them healthy. The bones are
their health bank.
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental pathogenetic
mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a) failure to
achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and development;
(b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone mass and
disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost bone due to
defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known to play a
critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while calcium and
vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism also
contribute.
What does that tell you?
Post by Steelclaws
There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition to
the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth factors,
and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number of genes have
been associated with differences in bone mass and fragility. It is now
possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess fracture risk, and reduce that
risk with antiresorptive or other available therapies. However, new and
more effective approaches are likely to emerge from a better
understanding of the regulators of bone cell function."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Post by carole
Once the bank is empty, they have nothing left to fall back on.
And a lot of these oldies have deficient diets - white bread toast and
marmalade, corn beef and mashed potatoes, a few cups of tea for their
calcium.
Vitamin D and calcium deficiency can be a factor in osteoporosis, but
loss of bone density is not treatable with minerals and vitamins except
calcium and vitamin D in those cases.
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
And this is because they can't be patented.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Moreover, given that it's likely as Rife's book was published in
1953, he was not aware of bacterial DNA. His claim would mean that
bacteria would be able to rewrite their DNA completely in a different
environment, and it has never been observed to happen.
The bugs are pleomorphic.
There are 10 basic forms which change according to their environment.
When the body becomes toxic they turn pathogenic and vice versa.
As usual, how about citing some _valid_ research instead of just making
claims? A peer-reviewed article will do nicely.
How about you do some research for yourself.
You might value the information more if you have to work for it.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and
infections with cellsalts.
And you still have your fungal infection, as you yourself have said
you have a recurring fungal infection.
Yes it recurs however, with each occurrence it gets less which was
also the case with my housedust allergy. Which eventually disappeared.
Also the objective is to maintain a pure bloodstream. The athletes
foot is merely an indication that my bloodstream is becoming toxic.
Using a fungicide is suppressing the symptoms which is fine in a way,
but not ideal.
Fungcides kill the fungus that is causing the symptoms. It goes directly
to the cause.
It is allopathic. Look it up.
Post by Steelclaws
Did you not know that fungi are external infections? Your body does not
produce the fungus.
Really, I thought it came from the tooth fairy.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
This is the nature cure system that was taught before the
pharmaceutical business with disease began its campaign to DDT and
eliminate all alternative forms of medicine.
Like there _were_ any "alternative" forms of medicine... There is only
medicine, meaning that which can be shown to work and then there is
quackery, which cannot be shown to work.
No, there is only the fraudulent pharmaceutical business with disease and
medicine.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
I am not going to respond to these constant demands for evidence and made to
feel like I'm an idiot to believe in nutritional medicine.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
If cellsalts can cure the bloodstream and stop infections, fungi and
parasites which is no mean feat, maybe they can stop any bacterial
disease. Has it been tried?
Not that I've ever heard.
That is a mighty big if. Since you admit you have only pure speculation,
I will treat it just as I treat any pure speculation: interesting idea,
but needs to be researched.
We all know that the idea of vitamins and minerals are totally foreign to
the schooling allopaths receive.
So why don't you just suck it up and do your own research instead of being
tiresome.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Well I'm not going to do any double blind studies as I don't consider
it necessary when anybody can test it for themselves.
These are all commonly available affordable ingredients.
Its no big deal for any person to test for themselves.
I'm not a great believer in the great pharmaceutical rigors or double
blind studies and all their bureacracy and manipulations.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say
fasting which never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with
cellsalts - mainly reducing acidity.
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
The cellsalt theory has been used by nature cure / naturapaths since
mid/late 1800s.
It is a system of medicine worked out by schuessler.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
That's what I've been asking.
Its news to me if anybody has ever used this system.
Maybe going right back to 1900 or something like that before
pharmaceuticals.
Post by Steelclaws
What does "pure bloodstream" mean in the first place? The term is a
bit vague.
A pure bloodstream is that condition where fungi, bacteria and parasites
are knocked out.
So nobody has it then? Also, what makes it different from immune system
- which we do know about and also about how it works?
[paranoia snipped, I have no interest in dealing with conspiracy
screeds]
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/childnutrition.html for starters.
Go through that, and just tell me what you think would be wrong with
that advice.
That sounds ideal diet advice --except needs more calcium.
Milk was recommended in it, and milk is a source of calcium.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Nutrition is no defense against some pathogens. Those 24 million
Europeans who died of Y. pestis infection ate very varied diets, as
the peasant and nobility diets were highly different. Regional diets
also varied quite a lot, but none of that made any difference to the
mortality rate in different societal and geographical groups and
subgroups.
<snipped a bit of rubbish I have no interest in following up on>

I'm sorry.
I can see that all you want to do is push your pharmaceutical drugs.
Its like a religion with you and you can't help yourself.

I suggest you get help.

carole
www.soiltheory.com
Steelclaws
2010-08-21 14:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
You're trying to play the old immunity and natural protection that
vaccinations bring, right?
There were NO vaccinations back in the Middle Ages, so that cannot be
a factor! Try and learn at least _something_ about the history of
medicine.
Now try again - and without your "Big Pharma" screed this time.
Why were first contact pathogens so lethal, if "pure bloodstream" is
effective against infections?
Why is it that bacteria don't kill everybody, even when introduced
into in a new population?
One reason we do know about, and that is having the mutated version of
the CCR5 gene. It prevents pathogens - at least Y. pestis and HIV-1,
possibly smallpox from attaching themselves to a cell and multiplying.
Ergo, no infection.

http://microbiology.suite101.com/article.cfm/hiv_protection

Other reasons include robust immune system - that also is a genetic
trait - , less exposure to the pathogen or avoidance of infection. We
know from history that people tended to run away from infected cities
and villages.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the
question: has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If
not, then it's more than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Which would not stop anyone from re-creating Rife's experiment,
since his claims are available.
Apparently he turned to the bottle after that.
Rife was a genius and that was his thing.
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his
devices have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in
existence, nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Regardless, why was there a concerted campaign by organised medicine
to stop him?
I've read a few pro-Rife sites, and they _assert_ that, but seem to be
lacking any evidence. I don't take assertions seriously.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to
make such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
It is merely spin by big pharma that his microscope didn't work.
It still does not work. Examples are still in existence, and can be
tested. Did you miss that auction link to an original, Rife-built
microscope I posted?

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2

This one concerns the sale of an original Rife microscope built by Rife
himself.

Bonham's is an auctions room.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Since I can find people getting convicted for fraud when they sell
Rife devices and make fraudulent health claims, looks like you're
completely wrong about Rife's "discoveries" being unavailable today.
Oh so the persecution against rife's treatments continues.
So let me get this right.
He stole his own notes and wrecked his own equipment because .....?
And persecution continues today against his discoveries by who?
I'm afraid the story you've been fed doesn't add up.
So far I've only seen assertions from other people that it ever
happened.

Other people who sell Rife devices with fraudulent claims are prosecuted
for fraud, it's consumer protection.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/44/2/115.pdf
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20071221
&slug=indictment21m
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2 This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
Sorry, I don't read pharmaceutical propaganda.
Since when does an auction room have anything to do with pharmaceutical
companies?

As for the rest of the links, you're so afraid of anything that might
discredit your little delusions... How come I can read any kook site you
post, but you don't dare to read any site I post, up to and including an
auction site?

Coward!
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
There are people working on the microscopes here and there, and
there are people using radiowave frequencies to zap bugs. Hulda
Clark was one wasn't she?
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not
generate radiowaves.
Ok then. So what's your problem?
Just answering your question - and Clark's contraption does not work
either.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
My interest is a toxemia, pure bloodstream and acidosis.
I think the body can get rid of bugs itself with the right cellsalt
combo. It took me 20 years to figure it out though.
My theory is that all those oldies with porous bones have had the
minerals taken from their bones to keep them healthy. The bones are
their health bank.
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental
pathogenetic mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a)
failure to achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and
development; (b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone
mass and disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost
bone due to defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known
to play a critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while
calcium and vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism
also contribute.
What does that tell you?
It tells me what it says, that VITAMIN D and CALCIUM deficiency can lead
to osteoporosis. Both are correctable.

It does not say anything about your "all those oldies with porous bones
have had the minerals taken from their bones to keep them healthy. The
bones are their health bank." -claim.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition
to the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth
factors, and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number
of genes have been associated with differences in bone mass and
fragility. It is now possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess
fracture risk, and reduce that risk with antiresorptive or other
available therapies. However, new and more effective approaches are
likely to emerge from a better understanding of the regulators of
bone cell function."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Vitamin D and calcium deficiency can be a factor in osteoporosis, but
loss of bone density is not treatable with minerals and vitamins
except calcium and vitamin D in those cases.
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a
whole 4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
And this is because they can't be patented.
"The gods themselves struggle against willing ignorance."

IF doctors don't know about these things then how in the hell do they
PRESCRIBE, yes, prescribe vitamin D and calcium in cases where lab tests
show those are the causes of osteoporosis???

Sheesh!
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Moreover, given that it's likely as Rife's book was published in
1953, he was not aware of bacterial DNA. His claim would mean that
bacteria would be able to rewrite their DNA completely in a
different environment, and it has never been observed to happen.
The bugs are pleomorphic.
There are 10 basic forms which change according to their
environment. When the body becomes toxic they turn pathogenic and
vice versa.
As usual, how about citing some _valid_ research instead of just
making claims? A peer-reviewed article will do nicely.
How about you do some research for yourself.
You might value the information more if you have to work for it.
IOW, you don't have any.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Fungcides kill the fungus that is causing the symptoms. It goes
directly to the cause.
It is allopathic. Look it up.
*Facepalm*

Ok, I'll try to explain it as simply as I ever can: Fungi bad. Fungi
cause problem. Fungicide kill fungi. Problem gone.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Did you not know that fungi are external infections? Your body does
not produce the fungus.
Really, I thought it came from the tooth fairy.
Given the extremely vague way you explain it, I can't be sure what you
believe or not.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
This is the nature cure system that was taught before the
pharmaceutical business with disease began its campaign to DDT and
eliminate all alternative forms of medicine.
Like there _were_ any "alternative" forms of medicine... There is
only medicine, meaning that which can be shown to work and then there
is quackery, which cannot be shown to work.
No, there is only the fraudulent pharmaceutical business with disease
and medicine.
The real frauds are the hucksters who make you pay for worthless or
harmful nostrums, such as MMS, Drown Radio Therapy, Sagwa etc.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying
the bloodstream?
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
I am not going to respond to these constant demands for evidence and
made to feel like I'm an idiot to believe in nutritional medicine.
I'm not going to call you an idiot, but well... I just don't understand
how anyone can accept anything as real without evidence. I guess I'll
never understand believers.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
If cellsalts can cure the bloodstream and stop infections, fungi and
parasites which is no mean feat, maybe they can stop any bacterial
disease. Has it been tried?
Not that I've ever heard.
That is a mighty big if. Since you admit you have only pure
interesting idea, but needs to be researched.
We all know that the idea of vitamins and minerals are totally foreign
to the schooling allopaths receive.
Yeah, riiight...

http://www.tufts.edu/med/education/phpd/mph/concentrations/nutrition/cou
rses.html

Required Courses and Description

NUTR 201: Fundamentals of Nutrition Science (Fall Semester - 4.0
Credits)
This is a survey course encompassing the general scientific principles
of good nutrition including required nutrients and their functions,
RDAs, assessment of nutritional status, dietary patterns, and
fundamentals of food science. Core knowledge of the principles
underlying general nutrition and its components should be part of the
foundation of learning for graduate students with a degree in nutrition.
This course was formerly listed as NUTR 291FN.Prerequisite:a college
level biology or chemistry course.
NUTR 202: Scientific Principles of Human Nutrition and Food (Spring
Semester - 6.0 Credits)
This course presents the fundamentals of nutrition. The student will be
expected to be familiar with the material covered in undergraduate level
biology, chemistry and biochemistry prior to taking this course. The
goals for this course are: 1.) to identify the components of a healthful
diet, from the basic groups of foods to each of the macronutrients and
micronutrients, and their inter-relationships; 2.) to understand the
effects of harvesting, processing and storage of foods as they pertain
to a healthful diet; 3.) for each of the individual nutrients, to
identify primary dietary forms, food sources, recommended dietary
intake, biochemical role, mode of absorption, transport and excretion,
existence of toxicity or deficiency for the nutrient; 4.) to understand
the scientific basis for current nutrition recommendations and the
intended use for individual sets of recommendations and; 5.) to
understand issues affecting food safety. This course was formerly listed
as NUTR 291SP. Prerequisites: Undergraduate level biology, chemistry and
biochemistry.
Please note: Students can take either Fundamentals of Nutrition (NUTR
201) or Scientific Principles of Human Nutrition and Food (NUTR 202)

NUTR 228: Community and Public Health Nutrition (Fall Semester - 4.0
Credits)
This course examines a wide range of community nutrition programs, with
a particular focus on evidence-based nutrition programs and the needs of
diverse and vulnerable populations. Through readings, assignments,
lectures, group problem solving and field visits, students will gain
experience with the many facets of community nutrition program
development, implementation and evaluation. Students will be introduced
to many skill building and participatory activities, as well as case
examples for the creative and innovative practice of community
nutrition. Upon completion of this course, the students will have a
toolbox of skills to utilize and apply in a wide range of practice
settings.This course was formerly listed as NUTR 250C.Graduate standing
or consent of instructor.
NUTR 301: Nutrition in the Lifecycle (Spring Semester - 4.0 Credits)
This course covers nutrition issues from preconception throughout life.
It considers factors that affect growth and development, and the aging
process. Among these are food insecurity, environmental factors,
nutrition and disease interactions, congenital abnormalities, and inborn
errors of metabolism. This course was formerly listed as NUTR 251.
Prerequisites: NUTR 201.

Hint: they're called micronutrients in medicine. Since you did not -
very obviously - know that, I'm not surprised you can't find mention of
vitamins and minerals in medical texts.
Post by carole
So why don't you just suck it up and do your own research instead of
being tiresome.
I've done mine - but you have not. Boy, does that ever show...
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Nutrition is no defense against some pathogens. Those 24 million
Europeans who died of Y. pestis infection ate very varied diets, as
the peasant and nobility diets were highly different. Regional
diets also varied quite a lot, but none of that made any difference
to the mortality rate in different societal and geographical groups
and subgroups.
<snipped a bit of rubbish I have no interest in following up on>
Yet another one you can't respond to, I see.
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
carole
2010-08-21 23:31:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
You're trying to play the old immunity and natural protection that
vaccinations bring, right?
There were NO vaccinations back in the Middle Ages, so that cannot be
a factor! Try and learn at least _something_ about the history of
medicine.
Now try again - and without your "Big Pharma" screed this time.
Why were first contact pathogens so lethal, if "pure bloodstream" is
effective against infections?
Why is it that bacteria don't kill everybody, even when introduced
into in a new population?
One reason we do know about, and that is having the mutated version of
the CCR5 gene. It prevents pathogens - at least Y. pestis and HIV-1,
possibly smallpox from attaching themselves to a cell and multiplying.
Ergo, no infection.
http://microbiology.suite101.com/article.cfm/hiv_protection
Other reasons include robust immune system - that also is a genetic
trait - , less exposure to the pathogen or avoidance of infection. We
know from history that people tended to run away from infected cities
and villages.
Maybe.
Other reason could be that some had more pure bloodstream than others.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the
question: has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If
not, then it's more than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Which would not stop anyone from re-creating Rife's experiment,
since his claims are available.
Apparently he turned to the bottle after that.
Rife was a genius and that was his thing.
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his
devices have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in
existence, nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Regardless, why was there a concerted campaign by organised medicine
to stop him?
I've read a few pro-Rife sites, and they _assert_ that, but seem to be
lacking any evidence. I don't take assertions seriously.
Modern pharmaceutical based medicine will lie, they rewrite history to suit
their own agenda.
It doesn't suit them to have it known they try to stop alternative medicine,
so they merely rewrite history.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to
make such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
It is merely spin by big pharma that his microscope didn't work.
It still does not work. Examples are still in existence, and can be
tested. Did you miss that auction link to an original, Rife-built
microscope I posted?
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2
Regardless, I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of it.
I know that pharmaceutical medicine is corrupt and uses fair means and foul
to assert itself.
Whether it is big donations to medical schools, campaigns against
alternative practitioners, hiring doctors to spin their drugs, behind the
scenes manipulations, whatever they can come up with they will use.

Here's the latest in their long line of suppression attempts against their
competition.

Where Has Barrett's-and Quackbusters'-Funding Come From?
http://gaia-health.com/articles251/000277-quackbusters-are-busted.shtml

Barrett has launched at least 14 expensive legal actions at a single time,
cases that can be assumed to cost at least $100,000 each to pursue. In the
Federal Court in Oregon, he was forced to respond to questions about his
income. In two years' time, Barrett had made a total of $54,000.

Where did Barrett get the money to pursue so many cases? Thus far, no one
seems to have found the hard proof, but it's obvious that the backing for
his nefarious machinations has been Big Pharma and Big Medicine, which seek
to drive any and all competition out of business and make them illegal.
Post by Steelclaws
This one concerns the sale of an original Rife microscope built by Rife
himself.
Bonham's is an auctions room.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Since I can find people getting convicted for fraud when they sell
Rife devices and make fraudulent health claims, looks like you're
completely wrong about Rife's "discoveries" being unavailable today.
Oh so the persecution against rife's treatments continues.
So let me get this right.
He stole his own notes and wrecked his own equipment because .....?
And persecution continues today against his discoveries by who?
I'm afraid the story you've been fed doesn't add up.
So far I've only seen assertions from other people that it ever
happened.
Other people who sell Rife devices with fraudulent claims are prosecuted
for fraud, it's consumer protection.
Sure. Just like the war on terror is making the world safe for democracy.
And the war in Iraq is all about getting rid of WMD never mind the 1 million
Iraq deaths..
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/44/2/115.pdf
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20071221
&slug=indictment21m
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2 This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
Sorry, I don't read pharmaceutical propaganda.
Since when does an auction room have anything to do with pharmaceutical
companies?
As for the rest of the links, you're so afraid of anything that might
discredit your little delusions... How come I can read any kook site you
post, but you don't dare to read any site I post, up to and including an
auction site?
Coward!
No, you have been relentlessly rude to me, using your better education to
look down your nose and assert that pharmaceutical based medicine is
superior.
You don't demand I read anything.
First you come to terms with the fact that the pharmaceutical cartel is
corrupt and stop trying to give the impression it is above reproach.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
There are people working on the microscopes here and there, and
there are people using radiowave frequencies to zap bugs. Hulda
Clark was one wasn't she?
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not
generate radiowaves.
Ok then. So what's your problem?
Just answering your question - and Clark's contraption does not work
either.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
My interest is a toxemia, pure bloodstream and acidosis.
I think the body can get rid of bugs itself with the right cellsalt
combo. It took me 20 years to figure it out though.
My theory is that all those oldies with porous bones have had the
minerals taken from their bones to keep them healthy. The bones are
their health bank.
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental
pathogenetic mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a)
failure to achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and
development; (b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone
mass and disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost
bone due to defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known
to play a critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while
calcium and vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism
also contribute.
What does that tell you?
It tells me what it says, that VITAMIN D and CALCIUM deficiency can lead
to osteoporosis. Both are correctable.
I have discovered that the body has natural immunity against bacteria,
microbes and fungi with increased intake of calcium (carbonate), sodium
(bicarb) and potassium (cream of tartar).
If people have osteoporosis it means they have no immunity as these three
have to be used together.
Yet this information is deliberately kept from the public so the
pharmaceutical cartel can be peddle its drugs.

The body has natural immunity when these deficiencies are corrected.
Yet you want evidence like the pharmaceutical evidence where they manipulate
their data to sell expensive drugs to treat conditions rather than treat
deficiency symptoms.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Steelclaws
2010-08-22 10:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why is it that bacteria don't kill everybody, even when introduced
into in a new population?
One reason we do know about, and that is having the mutated version
of the CCR5 gene. It prevents pathogens - at least Y. pestis and
HIV-1, possibly smallpox from attaching themselves to a cell and
multiplying. Ergo, no infection.
http://microbiology.suite101.com/article.cfm/hiv_protection
Other reasons include robust immune system - that also is a genetic
trait - , less exposure to the pathogen or avoidance of infection. We
know from history that people tended to run away from infected cities
and villages.
Maybe.
Other reason could be that some had more pure bloodstream than others.
You still haven't shown one scrap of evidence that a) there is such a
thing, b) that it has any effect on pathogens.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Regardless, why was there a concerted campaign by organised medicine
to stop him?
I've read a few pro-Rife sites, and they _assert_ that, but seem to
be lacking any evidence. I don't take assertions seriously.
Modern pharmaceutical based medicine will lie, they rewrite history to
suit their own agenda.
It doesn't suit them to have it known they try to stop alternative
medicine, so they merely rewrite history.
Argument by assertion.

As regards Rife:

http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html

How come Rife's notes are still available, and that all but Rife's
microscope #1 are accounted for?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It still does not work. Examples are still in existence, and can be
tested. Did you miss that auction link to an original, Rife-built
microscope I posted?
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2
Regardless, I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of it.
You have just conclusively been shown to have been in the wrong about
the existence of Rife's microscopes. Now be a good girl and admit it.
Post by Bob Officer
I know that pharmaceutical medicine is corrupt and uses fair means and
foul to assert itself.
Whether it is big donations to medical schools, campaigns against
alternative practitioners, hiring doctors to spin their drugs, behind
the scenes manipulations, whatever they can come up with they will
use.
Is that the line of last defense you fall into when you're shown to be
wrong? Not very impressive.

It's also based on nothing except pure paranoia.
Post by Bob Officer
Here's the latest in their long line of suppression attempts against
their competition.
Where Has Barrett's-and Quackbusters'-Funding Come From?
http://gaia-health.com/articles251/000277-quackbusters-are-
busted.shtml

I don't know about Barrett's finances. But I DO recognize an attempt to
sidetrack when one is used.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Other people who sell Rife devices with fraudulent claims are
prosecuted for fraud, it's consumer protection.
Sure. Just like the war on terror is making the world safe for
democracy. And the war in Iraq is all about getting rid of WMD never
mind the 1 million Iraq deaths..
So you DON'T have a clue what consumer protection is for? Figures...
You'd probably enjoy all the adulterated food that used to be the
standard before consumer protection laws were passed.

You're using straw men again, btw, as I never mentioned war on terror.
Try responding to what I actually say instead.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Since when does an auction room have anything to do with
pharmaceutical companies?
As for the rest of the links, you're so afraid of anything that might
discredit your little delusions... How come I can read any kook site
you post, but you don't dare to read any site I post, up to and
including an auction site?
Coward!
No, you have been relentlessly rude to me, using your better education
to look down your nose and assert that pharmaceutical based medicine
is superior.
Do you also hate athletes who can outperform you? They can outperform me
as well, and I don't hate them for that.

The difference, btw, is that I can back up what I say by using valid
evidence. You have failed abysmally at that.
Post by Bob Officer
You don't demand I read anything.
First you come to terms with the fact that the pharmaceutical cartel
is corrupt and stop trying to give the impression it is above
reproach.
Did I EVER claim it was above reproach? Straw men again..

First you provide valid evidence that there is such a cartel. None
you've posted so far has been evidence of anything else except the
authors' paranoia or desire to discredit a competitor.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental
(a) failure to achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth
and development; (b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of
bone mass and disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to
replace lost bone due to defects in bone formation. Estrogen
deficiency is known to play a critical role in the development of
osteoporosis, while calcium and vitamin D deficiencies and
secondary hyperparathyroidism also contribute.
What does that tell you?
It tells me what it says, that VITAMIN D and CALCIUM deficiency can
lead to osteoporosis. Both are correctable.
I have discovered that the body has natural immunity against bacteria,
microbes and fungi with increased intake of calcium (carbonate),
sodium (bicarb) and potassium (cream of tartar).
Try providing evidence for your discovery if you wish to be taken
seriously. That's what it takes for _everyone_ with a new discovery.
Post by Bob Officer
If people have osteoporosis it means they have no immunity as these
three have to be used together.
How come all of them do not have every single communicable disease there
is if they don't have any immunity? Do you actually know how people with
no immunity have to live in order to survive?

http://historywired.si.edu/object.cfm?ID=3
Post by Bob Officer
Yet this information is deliberately kept from the public so the
pharmaceutical cartel can be peddle its drugs.
You claimed it was YOUR discovery, and it's available on the usenet - I
certainly have access as I'm responding to it. How does that match with
your claim that it's deliberately kept from the public? Usenet is
public, you know.
Post by Bob Officer
The body has natural immunity when these deficiencies are corrected.
The body has natural immunity even without cell salts. I've never taken
any in my life, and still have natural immunity.
Post by Bob Officer
Yet you want evidence like the pharmaceutical evidence where they
manipulate their data to sell expensive drugs to treat conditions
rather than treat deficiency symptoms.
Argument - and a paranoid one - by assertion again. Don't you ever get
tired of posting fallacious arguments?
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
carole
2010-08-23 11:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why is it that bacteria don't kill everybody, even when introduced
into in a new population?
One reason we do know about, and that is having the mutated version
of the CCR5 gene. It prevents pathogens - at least Y. pestis and
HIV-1, possibly smallpox from attaching themselves to a cell and
multiplying. Ergo, no infection.
http://microbiology.suite101.com/article.cfm/hiv_protection
Other reasons include robust immune system - that also is a genetic
trait - , less exposure to the pathogen or avoidance of infection. We
know from history that people tended to run away from infected cities
and villages.
Maybe.
Other reason could be that some had more pure bloodstream than others.
You still haven't shown one scrap of evidence that a) there is such a
thing, b) that it has any effect on pathogens.
Its a concept, amazing in its simplicity, yet so profound as to be almost
astounding.
Once the right cellsalts / macro minerals are taken the body actually can
get rid of fungi, parasites and bacteria.
The proof or evidence is in the pudding so to speak.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Regardless, why was there a concerted campaign by organised medicine
to stop him?
I've read a few pro-Rife sites, and they _assert_ that, but seem to
be lacking any evidence. I don't take assertions seriously.
Modern pharmaceutical based medicine will lie, they rewrite history to
suit their own agenda.
It doesn't suit them to have it known they try to stop alternative
medicine, so they merely rewrite history.
Argument by assertion.
Whatever.
Post by Steelclaws
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
How come Rife's notes are still available, and that all but Rife's
microscope #1 are accounted for?
Propaganda.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It still does not work. Examples are still in existence, and can be
tested. Did you miss that auction link to an original, Rife-built
microscope I posted?
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2
Regardless, I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of it.
You have just conclusively been shown to have been in the wrong about
the existence of Rife's microscopes. Now be a good girl and admit it.
Its all Fishbein and the AMA's fault.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I know that pharmaceutical medicine is corrupt and uses fair means and
foul to assert itself.
Whether it is big donations to medical schools, campaigns against
alternative practitioners, hiring doctors to spin their drugs, behind
the scenes manipulations, whatever they can come up with they will
use.
Is that the line of last defense you fall into when you're shown to be
wrong? Not very impressive.
It's also based on nothing except pure paranoia.
Your assertions are based on nothing more.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Here's the latest in their long line of suppression attempts against
their competition.
Where Has Barrett's-and Quackbusters'-Funding Come From?
http://gaia-health.com/articles251/000277-quackbusters-are-
busted.shtml
I don't know about Barrett's finances. But I DO recognize an attempt to
sidetrack when one is used.
That's nice.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Other people who sell Rife devices with fraudulent claims are
prosecuted for fraud, it's consumer protection.
Sure. Just like the war on terror is making the world safe for
democracy. And the war in Iraq is all about getting rid of WMD never
mind the 1 million Iraq deaths..
So you DON'T have a clue what consumer protection is for? Figures...
You'd probably enjoy all the adulterated food that used to be the
standard before consumer protection laws were passed.
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting by the
checks and balances.
Post by Steelclaws
You're using straw men again, btw, as I never mentioned war on terror.
Try responding to what I actually say instead.
Consumer protection is a catch all to further the plans of the AMA to wipe
out any alternative remedies.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Since when does an auction room have anything to do with
pharmaceutical companies?
As for the rest of the links, you're so afraid of anything that might
discredit your little delusions... How come I can read any kook site
you post, but you don't dare to read any site I post, up to and
including an auction site?
Coward!
No, you have been relentlessly rude to me, using your better education
to look down your nose and assert that pharmaceutical based medicine
is superior.
Do you also hate athletes who can outperform you? They can outperform me
as well, and I don't hate them for that.
Yes, but your goal and only goal seems to be to catch me out.
Post by Steelclaws
The difference, btw, is that I can back up what I say by using valid
evidence. You have failed abysmally at that.
And what have you used valid evidence to prove, that anybody is interested
in knowing?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
You don't demand I read anything.
First you come to terms with the fact that the pharmaceutical cartel
is corrupt and stop trying to give the impression it is above
reproach.
Did I EVER claim it was above reproach? Straw men again..
What are you trying to prove then?
Post by Steelclaws
First you provide valid evidence that there is such a cartel. None
you've posted so far has been evidence of anything else except the
authors' paranoia or desire to discredit a competitor.
Yes, that is right.
They have clever lawyers and spend a lot of money on bribes, marketing and
trashing their opposition.
The pharmaceutical companies are a corrupt lot and there is every reason to
assume they are working in tandem such as a cartel situation.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental
(a) failure to achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth
and development; (b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of
bone mass and disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to
replace lost bone due to defects in bone formation. Estrogen
deficiency is known to play a critical role in the development of
osteoporosis, while calcium and vitamin D deficiencies and
secondary hyperparathyroidism also contribute.
What does that tell you?
It tells me what it says, that VITAMIN D and CALCIUM deficiency can
lead to osteoporosis. Both are correctable.
I have discovered that the body has natural immunity against bacteria,
microbes and fungi with increased intake of calcium (carbonate),
sodium (bicarb) and potassium (cream of tartar).
Try providing evidence for your discovery if you wish to be taken
seriously. That's what it takes for _everyone_ with a new discovery.
It is self-evident once the cellsalts / macro minerals are supplied.
Its not my fault if the system is so corrupted that more is known of drugs
than nutrients.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
If people have osteoporosis it means they have no immunity as these
three have to be used together.
How come all of them do not have every single communicable disease there
is if they don't have any immunity? Do you actually know how people with
no immunity have to live in order to survive?
Because they take drugs to suppress the symptoms and end up with cancer, ms,
alzheimers etc due to the toxins still in their bodies.
Post by Steelclaws
http://historywired.si.edu/object.cfm?ID=3
Post by Bob Officer
Yet this information is deliberately kept from the public so the
pharmaceutical cartel can be peddle its drugs.
You claimed it was YOUR discovery, and it's available on the usenet - I
certainly have access as I'm responding to it. How does that match with
your claim that it's deliberately kept from the public? Usenet is
public, you know.
Its my discovery because I discovered it after years of trial and error.
All knowledge of nutrients should be public knowledge.
What does it say about the state of medicine when it takes people such as
myself, years to work out the value of minerals?
When they want to shove drugs at everybody for every condition from the time
people are born, yet they hid the value of minerals?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
The body has natural immunity when these deficiencies are corrected.
The body has natural immunity even without cell salts. I've never taken
any in my life, and still have natural immunity.
Depends on what you mean by immunity.
Because what I'm saying is that the idea of natural immunity can be extended
to include fungi, bacteria and parasites.
But despite all the billions that go into research, and all the best and
brightest working day and night, nobody has worked it out.
they've worked out genetic crap, but before that they should understand the
value of nutrients.
It has been totally overlooked since the discovery of vitamin C for scurvy
and b for beri beri.
Science stopped after that and now there are no more discoveries for value
of nutrients -- just more patentable drugs.

What is wrong with that picture?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Yet you want evidence like the pharmaceutical evidence where they
manipulate their data to sell expensive drugs to treat conditions
rather than treat deficiency symptoms.
Argument - and a paranoid one - by assertion again. Don't you ever get
tired of posting fallacious arguments?
No, never.
And I'll keep on doing it as long as I like because I am a conspiracy
theorist and that's my job.
As long as the arseholes who spin all the information the public receives,
as long as they keep spinning their info their way, I'll spin it my way.

Sounds fair enough to me.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Steelclaws
2010-08-23 13:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You still haven't shown one scrap of evidence that a) there is such a
thing, b) that it has any effect on pathogens.
Its a concept, amazing in its simplicity, yet so profound as to be
almost astounding.
Once the right cellsalts / macro minerals are taken the body actually
can get rid of fungi, parasites and bacteria.
The proof or evidence is in the pudding so to speak.
Then do the experiment necessary to document your claim. It won't be
accepted on your say-so except by the gullible.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
How come Rife's notes are still available, and that all but Rife's
microscope #1 are accounted for?
Propaganda.
That is a pro-Rife site. Yeah, I guess it's propaganda, but it's the
propaganda on your side, carole.

But you won't accept it, as it does not fit your persecutionary thinking.

Nor the fact that one of the original Rife-built microscopes was actually
sold on auction quite recently by Bonhams.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2
Regardless, I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of it.
You have just conclusively been shown to have been in the wrong about
the existence of Rife's microscopes. Now be a good girl and admit it.
Its all Fishbein and the AMA's fault.
So it's Fishbein's and AMA's fault that a Rife-built microscope is still in
existence. Amazing...
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I know that pharmaceutical medicine is corrupt and uses fair means
and foul to assert itself.
Whether it is big donations to medical schools, campaigns against
alternative practitioners, hiring doctors to spin their drugs,
behind the scenes manipulations, whatever they can come up with they
will use.
Is that the line of last defense you fall into when you're shown to
be wrong? Not very impressive.
It's also based on nothing except pure paranoia.
Your assertions are based on nothing more.
Sorry, carole, my findings are based on knowledge, logic, rational and
critical thinking. That is why I can back what I say - and you cannot.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I don't know about Barrett's finances. But I DO recognize an attempt
to sidetrack when one is used.
That's nice.
So that tactic won't work either, as I can recognize it.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
So you DON'T have a clue what consumer protection is for? Figures...
You'd probably enjoy all the adulterated food that used to be the
standard before consumer protection laws were passed.
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You're using straw men again, btw, as I never mentioned war on
terror. Try responding to what I actually say instead.
Consumer protection is a catch all to further the plans of the AMA to
wipe out any alternative remedies.
There is no evidence for such a plan. And don't repost the paranoid drivel
you imagine proves your case, I've been through that already and seen what
it is.

So you really think consumer protection is a bad idea? You like the idea of
having alum in your bread, chalk in your flour, strychnine in your beer or
copper salts in your pickles? I don't.

http://www.rsc.org/Education/EiC/issues/2005Mar/Thefightagainstfoodadultera
tion.asp
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Do you also hate athletes who can outperform you? They can outperform
me as well, and I don't hate them for that.
Yes, but your goal and only goal seems to be to catch me out.
I want you to either show valid evidence for your claims or withdraw them.
Don't you know how debate works?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
The difference, btw, is that I can back up what I say by using valid
evidence. You have failed abysmally at that.
And what have you used valid evidence to prove, that anybody is
interested in knowing?
Re-read my posts to you, maybe it'll dawn on you.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
You don't demand I read anything.
First you come to terms with the fact that the pharmaceutical cartel
is corrupt and stop trying to give the impression it is above
reproach.
Did I EVER claim it was above reproach? Straw men again..
What are you trying to prove then?
*facepalm* If you haven't been able to understand what I've been saying all
this time, I don't think you ever will.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
First you provide valid evidence that there is such a cartel. None
you've posted so far has been evidence of anything else except the
authors' paranoia or desire to discredit a competitor.
Yes, that is right.
I'm glad you admit that.
Post by carole
They have clever lawyers and spend a lot of money on bribes, marketing
and trashing their opposition.
The pharmaceutical companies are a corrupt lot and there is every
reason to assume they are working in tandem such as a cartel
situation.
And still you try to use argument by assertion. Haven't you understood by
now that I won't accept fallacious arguments as valid?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I have discovered that the body has natural immunity against
bacteria, microbes and fungi with increased intake of calcium
(carbonate), sodium (bicarb) and potassium (cream of tartar).
Try providing evidence for your discovery if you wish to be taken
seriously. That's what it takes for _everyone_ with a new discovery.
It is self-evident once the cellsalts / macro minerals are supplied.
Its not my fault if the system is so corrupted that more is known of
drugs than nutrients.
You are talking about "your discovery." That puts the ball firmly in your
court, and you have to provide evidence for it.

Argument by assertion STILL does not work, btw.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
If people have osteoporosis it means they have no immunity as these
three have to be used together.
How come all of them do not have every single communicable disease
there is if they don't have any immunity? Do you actually know how
people with no immunity have to live in order to survive?
Because they take drugs to suppress the symptoms and end up with
cancer, ms, alzheimers etc due to the toxins still in their bodies.
*double facepalm* So now you don't understand even what having no immunity
in reality means? Jesus tapdancing Christ on a freaking crutch!

How on earth can anyone be THAT ignorant about what they try to speculate
in????
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://historywired.si.edu/object.cfm?ID=3
Did you actually click that link? It's about "The Boy in the Bubble" and
shows how people with no immunity really have to do in order to survive.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You claimed it was YOUR discovery, and it's available on the usenet -
I certainly have access as I'm responding to it. How does that match
with your claim that it's deliberately kept from the public? Usenet
is public, you know.
Its my discovery because I discovered it after years of trial and
error. All knowledge of nutrients should be public knowledge.
What does it say about the state of medicine when it takes people such
as myself, years to work out the value of minerals?
When they want to shove drugs at everybody for every condition from
the time people are born, yet they hid the value of minerals?
Look for "micronutrients" on PubMed. That will show you wrong.

Besides, you NEVER responded to what I really said - as usual. I guess
straw men are easier to beat.

So let me repeat: You claimed it was YOUR discovery, and it's available on
the usenet - I certainly have access as I'm responding to it. How does that
match with your claim that it's deliberately kept from the public? Usenet
is public, you know.

Answer the question this time.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
The body has natural immunity even without cell salts. I've never
taken any in my life, and still have natural immunity.
Depends on what you mean by immunity.
So we're back to idiosyncratic quasi-neologisms of yours again.

immunity [?'mju?n?t?]
n pl -ties
1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Biology) the ability of an
organism to resist disease, either through the activities of specialized
blood cells or antibodies produced by them in response to natural exposure
or inoculation (active immunity) or by the injection of antiserum or the
transfer of antibodies from a mother to her baby via the placenta or breast
milk (passive immunity)

This is what is understood by the word "immunity".
Post by carole
Because what I'm saying is that the idea of natural immunity can be
extended to include fungi, bacteria and parasites.
Then freaking state so when you're mangling the meaning of words. I can't
read your mind and I have not been trained in carolespeak. The basic
assumption in any communication is that both participants use the words in
their commonly accepted meaning.
Post by carole
But despite all the billions that go into research, and all the best
and brightest working day and night, nobody has worked it out.
they've worked out genetic crap, but before that they should
understand the value of nutrients.
Get cracking then and prove your case by testing it. I've already given you
the guidelines in another post how it's done.
Post by carole
It has been totally overlooked since the discovery of vitamin C for
scurvy and b for beri beri.
Science stopped after that and now there are no more discoveries for
value of nutrients -- just more patentable drugs.
AHEM. I remember posting to you how vitamin D and calcium deficiency caused
osteoporosis is treated by giving the patients vitamin D and calcium. Did
you manage to forget that already?

You don't know much, do you? Here's a list of deficiency diseases and what
causes them.

Proteins/fats/carbohydrates:

Protein-energy malnutrition
Kwashiorkor
Marasmus
Mental retardation
Catabolysis

Dietary vitamins and minerals:

Calcium
Osteoporosis
Rickets
Tetany

Copper
Pancytopenia
Anemia

Iodine deficiency
Goiter

Selenium deficiency
Keshan disease

Iron deficiency
Iron deficiency anemia

Magnesium
Hyperexitability
Muscle weakness
Tiredness

Potassium
Hypertension
Myalgia
Hyporeflexia

Zinc
Growth retardation

Vitamin A
Xerophthalmia

Thiamine (Vitamin B1)
Beriberi

Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Ariboflavinosis

Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Pellagra

Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)
Pyridoxine deficiency
Sideroblastic anemia

Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Megaloblastic anemia

Vitamin C
Scurvy

Vitamin D
Osteoporosis
Rickets

Vitamin E
Spinocerbellar ataxia
Myopathies

Vitamin K
Impaired coagulation


Want to guess how all these are treated by medicine? That's right, by
giving the vitamins and minerals to the patient who's deficient in them.
Post by carole
What is wrong with that picture?
Your amazing lack of knowledge.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Argument - and a paranoid one - by assertion again. Don't you ever
get tired of posting fallacious arguments?
No, never.
And it shows.
Post by carole
And I'll keep on doing it as long as I like because I am a conspiracy
theorist and that's my job.
So does someone who has schizophrenia I know. He believes it's his job to
keep an eye with people, and give hand signals to police, who return the
signals. I don't credit what he says either.
Post by carole
As long as the arseholes who spin all the information the public
receives, as long as they keep spinning their info their way, I'll
spin it my way.
So you admit all you have is spin? Figures...
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
carole
2010-08-24 18:04:52 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Your assertions are based on nothing more.
Sorry, carole, my findings are based on knowledge, logic, rational and
critical thinking. That is why I can back what I say - and you cannot.
Like your findings that al qaeda were responsible for 911.
Now that gives me great confidence in your powers of rational thought.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for destroying
that business.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You're using straw men again, btw, as I never mentioned war on
terror. Try responding to what I actually say instead.
Consumer protection is a catch all to further the plans of the AMA to
wipe out any alternative remedies.
There is no evidence for such a plan. And don't repost the paranoid drivel
you imagine proves your case, I've been through that already and seen what
it is.
Oh yes there is.

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/medical-history.html
On February 6, 1973, two former chairman and 1 vice chair of the AMA's
council on drugs testified before Congress and said that the AMA was, "...A
captive of and beholden to the pharmaceutical industry." In 1987 the AMA was
found guilty of conspiring for 20 years to destroy the profession of
chiropractitioners.
Post by Steelclaws
So you really think consumer protection is a bad idea? You like the idea of
having alum in your bread, chalk in your flour, strychnine in your beer or
copper salts in your pickles? I don't.
http://www.rsc.org/Education/EiC/issues/2005Mar/Thefightagainstfoodadultera
tion.asp
No, and I don't trumped up reasons to drive alternative medicine out of
business either.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Do you also hate athletes who can outperform you? They can outperform
me as well, and I don't hate them for that.
Yes, but your goal and only goal seems to be to catch me out.
I want you to either show valid evidence for your claims or withdraw them.
Don't you know how debate works?
I am not a science trained person and don't feel compelled to operate by
scientific rules.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
The difference, btw, is that I can back up what I say by using valid
evidence. You have failed abysmally at that.
I couldn't give a flying fuck about scientific evidence.
I can't even read the fucking crap on pubmed. its not for the everyday
person.
Its designed to cut people out of the process.
Post by Steelclaws
*facepalm* If you haven't been able to understand what I've been saying all
this time, I don't think you ever will.
Good, then its not worth listenting to.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
They have clever lawyers and spend a lot of money on bribes, marketing
and trashing their opposition.
The pharmaceutical companies are a corrupt lot and there is every
reason to assume they are working in tandem such as a cartel
situation.
And still you try to use argument by assertion. Haven't you understood by
now that I won't accept fallacious arguments as valid?
Have you got any scientific evidence that you are not a contentious fuckwit?
Post by Steelclaws
Get cracking then and prove your case by testing it. I've already given you
the guidelines in another post how it's done.
So that it can be suppressed along with all other nutritional remedies?


<All contentious dribble deleted.>

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-25 02:59:57 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 04:04:52 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Your assertions are based on nothing more.
Sorry, carole, my findings are based on knowledge, logic, rational and
critical thinking. That is why I can back what I say - and you cannot.
Like your findings that al qaeda were responsible for 911.
Now that gives me great confidence in your powers of rational thought.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for destroying
that business.
What about the breaking of the laws WRT to adulterate products? You
don't think companies which endanger the consumers should be brought
to justice?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
You're using straw men again, btw, as I never mentioned war on
terror. Try responding to what I actually say instead.
Consumer protection is a catch all to further the plans of the AMA to
wipe out any alternative remedies.
There is no evidence for such a plan. And don't repost the paranoid drivel
you imagine proves your case, I've been through that already and seen what
it is.
Oh yes there is.
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/medical-history.html
On February 6, 1973, two former chairman and 1 vice chair of the AMA's
council on drugs testified before Congress and said that the AMA was, "...A
captive of and beholden to the pharmaceutical industry." In 1987 the AMA was
found guilty of conspiring for 20 years to destroy the profession of
chiropractitioners.
And the References which show this is something more than Post hoc
fallacies is where?

Sorry, Carole. When you stop using post hoc fallacies people will
stop thinking of you as an idiot.



<Snip>
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-25 07:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 04:04:52 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for destroying
that business.
What about the breaking of the laws WRT to adulterate products? You
don't think companies which endanger the consumers should be brought
to justice?
For a person who claims to know everything, you sure are stupid.
Pharmaceutical drugs are the 3rd leading cause of death.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-25 12:08:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:38:14 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 04:04:52 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for destroying
that business.
What about the breaking of the laws WRT to adulterate products? You
don't think companies which endanger the consumers should be brought
to justice?
For a person who claims to know everything, you sure are stupid.
Pharmaceutical drugs are the 3rd leading cause of death.
Carole without a reference that's called a fallacy.

you are not using the numbers correctly to state that causes of
death.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-25 12:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:38:14 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 04:04:52 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for destroying
that business.
What about the breaking of the laws WRT to adulterate products? You
don't think companies which endanger the consumers should be brought
to justice?
For a person who claims to know everything, you sure are stupid.
Pharmaceutical drugs are the 3rd leading cause of death.
Carole without a reference that's called a fallacy.
you are not using the numbers correctly to state that causes of
death.
whaever bob.
Point is there is a huge amount of deaths from properly prescribed
pharmaceuticals, so why do you think Pan deserved to be closed down rather
than the pharmaceutical cartel?

Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-25 20:09:06 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:41:04 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:38:14 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 04:04:52 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for destroying
that business.
What about the breaking of the laws WRT to adulterate products? You
don't think companies which endanger the consumers should be brought
to justice?
For a person who claims to know everything, you sure are stupid.
Pharmaceutical drugs are the 3rd leading cause of death.
Carole without a reference that's called a fallacy.
you are not using the numbers correctly to state that causes of
death.
whaever bob.
No Carole. Not whatever.
Post by carole
Point is there is a huge amount of deaths from properly prescribed
pharmaceuticals, so why do you think Pan deserved to be closed down rather
than the pharmaceutical cartel?
Yes they did. and so would any company witch such poor and faulty
standards.

Do you think a Butchershop should be allowed to sell meat that hasn't
be kept refrigerated properly?
Post by carole
Your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance.
You are Projecting, Carole.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Peter Bowditch
2010-08-25 13:46:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 04:04:52 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are getting
by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like the Pan
Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for destroying
that business.
What about the breaking of the laws WRT to adulterate products? You
don't think companies which endanger the consumers should be brought
to justice?
For a person who claims to know everything, you sure are stupid.
Pharmaceutical drugs are the 3rd leading cause of death.
I get sick of refuting this lie, so I just won't bother this time.
Post by carole
carole
www.conspiracee.com
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
I'm @RatbagsDotCom on Twitter
Steelclaws
2010-08-25 13:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
What about the breaking of the laws WRT to adulterate products? You
don't think companies which endanger the consumers should be brought
to justice?
For a person who claims to know everything, you sure are stupid.
Pharmaceutical drugs are the 3rd leading cause of death.
When will you stop lying?
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Steelclaws
2010-08-25 13:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Your assertions are based on nothing more.
Sorry, carole, my findings are based on knowledge, logic, rational
and critical thinking. That is why I can back what I say - and you
cannot.
Like your findings that al qaeda were responsible for 911.
Now that gives me great confidence in your powers of rational thought.
I know you'd like the world to be one big conspiracy aimed at you, but
it just does not work that way.

All the 9/11 conspiracy sites I've read have an underlying premise based
on racist argument from personal incdredulity: "a few Arabs with box
cutters could not have done this". That is a false premise, and
everything built on it is equally false.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Oh so that was the long-winded bit of dribble you wanted me to read.
We still have adulterated food in Oz. all sorts of things are
getting by the checks and balances.
Yeah, especially with stuff that isn't even checked properly, like
the Pan Pharmaceutical supplements.
The leaders of TGA should have been taken to court and jailed for
destroying that business.
When a company produces such shoddy supplements as this one did, it's a
very good idea to stop them from doing that.

"Other safety related irregularities found at audits by the TGA
included:

manipulation of the assay results of finished products in order to
comply with specifications.

fabrication of finished product assay results of a vitamin product for
export in order to comply with specifications. In two instances the
product was over-strength in the other two under-strength.

several instances of the use of beef cartilage in place of shark
cartilage and one instance of use of shark cartilage in place of beef
cartilage.

poor hygiene and sanitation, equipment that was not correctly
calibrated, equipment design faults giving concerns for cross
contamination between different products, documentation that was
deficient and the company's internal inspection program was not
effective.

The action by the TGA was designed to protect the health and safety of
the Australian public and followed advice received from an expert
advisory group convened to give an independent evaluation of the TGA
findings.

Specifically, issues identified by the Expert Group included:

Misidentification (mix-up) of raw materials, especially herbal
materials, which could lead to severe organ damage, including renal and
hepatic damage;

Cross-contamination or substitution of ingredients due to inadequate
operating procedures and poor compliance with existing procedures could
lead to severe allergic reactions including anaphylaxis;

Microbiological contamination through poor raw material sourcing and
handling, poor cleaning practices, and inadequate operating procedures,
could lead to infections.

The Expert Group concluded that the risk would increase over time and
could be realised at any time.

Specific risks included:

Substitution of shark cartilage for bovine cartilage which could cause
severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, in fish-protein
sensitive individuals;

Substitution of bovine cartilage for shark cartilage where the bovine
cartilage has been sourced without any assurance that it is TSE-free,
and the country of origin is unknown; and

Bovine colostrum obtained from non-approved suppliers where the raw
material could be sourced from a TSE 'at risk' country, and where the
source is unknown."

http://www.tga.gov.au/media/2003/030824pan.htm

That's reason enough.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
There is no evidence for such a plan. And don't repost the paranoid
drivel you imagine proves your case, I've been through that already
and seen what it is.
Oh yes there is.
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/medical-history.html
On February 6, 1973, two former chairman and 1 vice chair of the AMA's
council on drugs testified before Congress and said that the AMA was,
"...A captive of and beholden to the pharmaceutical industry." In 1987
the AMA was found guilty of conspiring for 20 years to destroy the
profession of chiropractitioners.
That site lacks cites - such as the original court decision. Those are
not copyrighted, so it's kinda surprising a link of the court decision
is not given. I still don't accept arguments by assertion.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
So you really think consumer protection is a bad idea? You like the idea of
having alum in your bread, chalk in your flour, strychnine in your
beer or copper salts in your pickles? I don't.
http://www.rsc.org/Education/EiC/issues/2005Mar/Thefightagainstfoodadu
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
ltera tion.asp
No, and I don't trumped up reasons to drive alternative medicine out
of business either.
You don't even know why Pure Food and Drug Act was created. Here's a
hint: patent medicines and adulterated food. I guess you could consider
patent medicines as "alternative medicine", but they were bad indeed,
usually no different from fraud.

For example, Radam's Microbe Killer, which he patented in 1886 with the
claim that it would kill all fungus, germs and parasites, consisted of a
gallon (4l) of water, about an ounce (30ml) of red wine, a dram (3.6ml)
of impure hydrochloric acid and four drams (14.4ml) of impure sulphuric
acid. A "cure" required 15-30 gallons (60-120l) of the mixture at $3 a
gallon jug. It was very expensive indeed, as a woman working in the
clothing industry in 1886 earned 65 cents a week.

These nostrums were generally claimed to cure all ills - or at the very
least an impressive list. Bonnore's Electro Magnetic Bathing Fluid
claimed to cure cholera, neuralgia, epilepsy, scarlet fever, necrosis,
mercurial eruptions, paralysis, hip diseases, chronic abscesses, and
"female complaints".

Their real effect - and popularity - is easily explained when you
realise most of them were in fact high in alcohol content. A very
popular one, Peruna, consisted of 18% of grain alcohol.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I want you to either show valid evidence for your claims or withdraw
them. Don't you know how debate works?
I am not a science trained person and don't feel compelled to operate
by scientific rules.
When you make claims that have to do with science, then it becomes a
requirement. Medicine is a science.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
The difference, btw, is that I can back up what I say by using
valid evidence. You have failed abysmally at that.
I couldn't give a flying fuck about scientific evidence.
And does it ever show...
Post by carole
I can't even read the fucking crap on pubmed. its not for the everyday
person.
That's only your limitation then. I've no training in medicine - my
education being in the humanities - but I also have no difficulty in
understanding what the articles say. If it has been possible for me to
learn to understand them, then what is stopping you?
Post by carole
Its designed to cut people out of the process.
Everyone with a normal intelligence and some effort can learn to
understand what is being said. It's not all that difficult.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
*facepalm* If you haven't been able to understand what I've been saying all
this time, I don't think you ever will.
Good, then its not worth listenting to.
Some concepts ARE a bit difficult to explain in grunts of one syllable
or less. I just can't dumb down things to that level, as it appears it's
all you can understand.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Get cracking then and prove your case by testing it. I've already given you
the guidelines in another post how it's done.
So that it can be suppressed along with all other nutritional
remedies?
I posted a load of those, but for some reason you appear to have missed
them. So let's post them again.

Here's a list of deficiency diseases and what
causes them.

Proteins/fats/carbohydrates:

Protein-energy malnutrition
Kwashiorkor
Marasmus
Mental retardation
Catabolysis

Dietary vitamins and minerals:

Calcium
Osteoporosis
Rickets
Tetany

Copper
Pancytopenia
Anemia

Iodine deficiency
Goiter

Selenium deficiency
Keshan disease

Iron deficiency
Iron deficiency anemia

Magnesium
Hyperexitability
Muscle weakness
Tiredness

Potassium
Hypertension
Myalgia
Hyporeflexia

Zinc
Growth retardation

Vitamin A
Xerophthalmia

Thiamine (Vitamin B1)
Beriberi

Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Ariboflavinosis

Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Pellagra

Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)
Pyridoxine deficiency
Sideroblastic anemia

Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Megaloblastic anemia

Vitamin C
Scurvy

Vitamin D
Osteoporosis
Rickets

Vitamin E
Spinocerbellar ataxia
Myopathies

Vitamin K
Impaired coagulation

Want to guess how all these are treated by medicine? That's right, by
giving the vitamins and minerals to the patient who's deficient in them.
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Bob Officer
2010-08-31 22:54:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 10:10:07 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative,
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why is it that bacteria don't kill everybody, even when introduced
into in a new population?
One reason we do know about, and that is having the mutated version
of the CCR5 gene. It prevents pathogens - at least Y. pestis and
HIV-1, possibly smallpox from attaching themselves to a cell and
multiplying. Ergo, no infection.
http://microbiology.suite101.com/article.cfm/hiv_protection
Other reasons include robust immune system - that also is a genetic
trait - , less exposure to the pathogen or avoidance of infection. We
know from history that people tended to run away from infected cities
and villages.
Maybe.
Other reason could be that some had more pure bloodstream than others.
You still haven't shown one scrap of evidence that a) there is such a
thing, b) that it has any effect on pathogens.
Actually I have been thinking about this and come up with the fact a
pure bloodstream can not exist. Certain Antibodies and other
substances pass through the placenta from the mother to child. These
substances like antibodies alcohol and some drugs would stop the
blood from being "Pure". Also the use of the Term more pure can not
be true one either has a pure blood stream or a non-pure blood
stream. It is a binary/either or situation.

And Carole Mentions the running away from the infected cites in some
case like typhoid, they were carriers, carting the disease from one
city to the next.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Regardless, why was there a concerted campaign by organised medicine
to stop him?
I've read a few pro-Rife sites, and they _assert_ that, but seem to
be lacking any evidence. I don't take assertions seriously.
Modern pharmaceutical based medicine will lie, they rewrite history to
suit their own agenda.
It doesn't suit them to have it known they try to stop alternative
medicine, so they merely rewrite history.
Argument by assertion.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
How come Rife's notes are still available, and that all but Rife's
microscope #1 are accounted for?
and his notes slide and the one actual photographs which he
supposedly made. Carole doesn't understand the man made a set number
of microscopes. They were sold, or cannibalized to make the next
scope. Enough people saw them and said they preformed no better that
other production quality scopes of the period. and in one account did
not preform as well of other custom made scopes.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It still does not work. Examples are still in existence, and can be
tested. Did you miss that auction link to an original, Rife-built
microscope I posted?
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?
sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=
16871&iSaleSectionNo=2
Regardless, I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of it.
You have just conclusively been shown to have been in the wrong about
the existence of Rife's microscopes. Now be a good girl and admit it.
She didn't and I don't think she can.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I know that pharmaceutical medicine is corrupt and uses fair means and
foul to assert itself.
Whether it is big donations to medical schools, campaigns against
alternative practitioners, hiring doctors to spin their drugs, behind
the scenes manipulations, whatever they can come up with they will
use.
Is that the line of last defense you fall into when you're shown to be
wrong? Not very impressive.
It's also based on nothing except pure paranoia.
and it has no place in a rational discussion.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Here's the latest in their long line of suppression attempts against
their competition.
Where Has Barrett's-and Quackbusters'-Funding Come From?
http://gaia-health.com/articles251/000277-quackbusters-are-
busted.shtml
I don't know about Barrett's finances. But I DO recognize an attempt to
sidetrack when one is used.
Red herring for desert, Anyone?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Other people who sell Rife devices with fraudulent claims are
prosecuted for fraud, it's consumer protection.
Sure. Just like the war on terror is making the world safe for
democracy. And the war in Iraq is all about getting rid of WMD never
mind the 1 million Iraq deaths..
So you DON'T have a clue what consumer protection is for? Figures...
You'd probably enjoy all the adulterated food that used to be the
standard before consumer protection laws were passed.
You're using straw men again, btw, as I never mentioned war on terror.
Try responding to what I actually say instead.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Since when does an auction room have anything to do with
pharmaceutical companies?
As for the rest of the links, you're so afraid of anything that might
discredit your little delusions... How come I can read any kook site
you post, but you don't dare to read any site I post, up to and
including an auction site?
Coward!
No, you have been relentlessly rude to me, using your better education
to look down your nose and assert that pharmaceutical based medicine
is superior.
Do you also hate athletes who can outperform you? They can outperform me
as well, and I don't hate them for that.
The difference, btw, is that I can back up what I say by using valid
evidence. You have failed abysmally at that.
Post by Bob Officer
You don't demand I read anything.
First you come to terms with the fact that the pharmaceutical cartel
is corrupt and stop trying to give the impression it is above
reproach.
Did I EVER claim it was above reproach? Straw men again..
First you provide valid evidence that there is such a cartel. None
you've posted so far has been evidence of anything else except the
authors' paranoia or desire to discredit a competitor.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental
(a) failure to achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth
and development; (b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of
bone mass and disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to
replace lost bone due to defects in bone formation. Estrogen
deficiency is known to play a critical role in the development of
osteoporosis, while calcium and vitamin D deficiencies and
secondary hyperparathyroidism also contribute.
What does that tell you?
It tells me what it says, that VITAMIN D and CALCIUM deficiency can
lead to osteoporosis. Both are correctable.
I have discovered that the body has natural immunity against bacteria,
microbes and fungi with increased intake of calcium (carbonate),
sodium (bicarb) and potassium (cream of tartar).
Try providing evidence for your discovery if you wish to be taken
seriously. That's what it takes for _everyone_ with a new discovery.
Post by Bob Officer
If people have osteoporosis it means they have no immunity as these
three have to be used together.
How come all of them do not have every single communicable disease there
is if they don't have any immunity? Do you actually know how people with
no immunity have to live in order to survive?
http://historywired.si.edu/object.cfm?ID=3
Looks like Carole simple shot herself in the foot again. I know
several people with diagnosed Osteoporosis. The only ill effect they
have a larger change of hip or spinal fracture. Their immunity is not
effected at all.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Yet this information is deliberately kept from the public so the
pharmaceutical cartel can be peddle its drugs.
You claimed it was YOUR discovery, and it's available on the usenet - I
certainly have access as I'm responding to it. How does that match with
your claim that it's deliberately kept from the public? Usenet is
public, you know.
It could be the manner in which she provides the information. Not
pre-treatment tests, no after treatment test. No one bit of Evidence
of data other than her say so. Science is not based on personal say
so. It is based on evidence, data and replication.

I guess that why no one pays any mind to her so-called treatment.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
The body has natural immunity when these deficiencies are corrected.
The body has natural immunity even without cell salts. I've never taken
any in my life, and still have natural immunity.
Post by Bob Officer
Yet you want evidence like the pharmaceutical evidence where they
manipulate their data to sell expensive drugs to treat conditions
rather than treat deficiency symptoms.
Argument - and a paranoid one - by assertion again. Don't you ever get
tired of posting fallacious arguments?
She can't help it. She enjoys showing the world she is an idiot.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Peter Bowditch
2010-08-22 00:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.

In 2008 I was punished by having to listen to a quack promoting goji
juice who, of course, came up with the same lie. (He didn't explain
how much training in nutrition the people selling the juice through
MLM got, but why should he?)

I wrote to the two biggest medical schools in Sydney, and here is what
they said:

University of Sydney:

"Your enquiry was forwarded to me as I am the academic responsible for
mapping the University of Sydney Medical Program. Our course is an
integrated program where teaching and learning is focused on the
knowledge and skills required to solve clinical problems, so we do not
teach "courses" or units of study as such. In the first two years of
our program we teach medicine in "Blocks", according to body systems,
which gives students the foundations for applying scientific knowledge
to the practice of medicine in later years. Within the Blocks,
teaching (including lectures and tutorials and supporting resources)
are focussed around a particular clinical problem of the week. One of
the Blocks is "Endocrine-Nutrition-Gastroenterology" where there is a
problem and associated teaching focused on nutrition. However
nutrition is also integrated into other subjects throughout the
course, such as in basic science teaching in Molecular Medicine or
Biochemistry, and in clinical teaching, such as in Surgery. I hope
this answers your query, please feel free to contact me if you have
other questions"

University of New South Wales:

"The UNSW Medicine curriculum does not address specific disciplines by
courses. Instead learning about a topic such as nutrition is
integrated with other relevant disciplines in the context of different
scenarios (in Phase 1) or real clinical experiences (later phases).
Attached is an Excel spreadsheet showing activities within the program
which have a focus relevant to nutrition. The majority of these
activities take place in Phase 1 which is when most campus-based
teaching occurs. In subsequent phases, students are taught in informal
clinical tutorials which are not recorded in the Curriculum Map"

The spreadsheet mentioned listed 54 course streams which included
something about nutrition.

Please don't repeat the lie again, Carole.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
I'm @RatbagsDotCom on Twitter
Mark STANLEY Probert
2010-08-22 02:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
In 2008 I was punished by having to listen to a quack promoting goji
juice who, of course, came up with the same lie. (He didn't explain
how much training in nutrition the people selling the juice through
MLM got, but why should he?)
I wrote to the two biggest medical schools in Sydney, and here is what
"Your enquiry was forwarded to me as I am the academic responsible for
mapping the University of Sydney Medical Program. Our course is an
integrated program where teaching and learning is focused on the
knowledge and skills required to solve clinical problems, so we do not
teach "courses" or units of study as such. In the first two years of
our program we teach medicine in "Blocks", according to body systems,
which gives students the foundations for applying scientific knowledge
to the practice of medicine in later years. Within the Blocks,
teaching (including lectures and tutorials and supporting resources)
are focussed around a particular clinical problem of the week. One of
the Blocks is "Endocrine-Nutrition-Gastroenterology" where there is a
problem and associated teaching focused on nutrition. However
nutrition is also integrated into other subjects throughout the
course, such as in basic science teaching in Molecular Medicine or
Biochemistry, and in clinical teaching, such as in Surgery. I hope
this answers your query, please feel free to contact me if you have
other questions"
"The UNSW Medicine curriculum does not address specific disciplines by
courses. Instead learning about a topic such as nutrition is
integrated with other relevant disciplines in the context of different
scenarios (in Phase 1) or real clinical experiences (later phases).
Attached is an Excel spreadsheet showing activities within the program
which have a focus relevant to nutrition. The majority of these
activities take place in Phase 1 which is when most campus-based
teaching occurs. In subsequent phases, students are taught in informal
clinical tutorials which are not recorded in the Curriculum Map"
The spreadsheet mentioned listed 54 course streams which included
something about nutrition.
Please don't repeat the lie again, Carole.
That is food for thought.
Post by Peter Bowditch
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Projecthttp://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraudhttp://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
carole
2010-08-22 07:32:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Post by Peter Bowditch
In 2008 I was punished by having to listen to a quack promoting goji
juice who, of course, came up with the same lie. (He didn't explain
how much training in nutrition the people selling the juice through
MLM got, but why should he?)
I wrote to the two biggest medical schools in Sydney, and here is what
"Your enquiry was forwarded to me as I am the academic responsible for
mapping the University of Sydney Medical Program. Our course is an
integrated program where teaching and learning is focused on the
knowledge and skills required to solve clinical problems, so we do not
teach "courses" or units of study as such. In the first two years of
our program we teach medicine in "Blocks", according to body systems,
which gives students the foundations for applying scientific knowledge
to the practice of medicine in later years. Within the Blocks,
teaching (including lectures and tutorials and supporting resources)
are focussed around a particular clinical problem of the week. One of
the Blocks is "Endocrine-Nutrition-Gastroenterology" where there is a
problem and associated teaching focused on nutrition. However
nutrition is also integrated into other subjects throughout the
course, such as in basic science teaching in Molecular Medicine or
Biochemistry, and in clinical teaching, such as in Surgery. I hope
this answers your query, please feel free to contact me if you have
other questions"
"The UNSW Medicine curriculum does not address specific disciplines by
courses. Instead learning about a topic such as nutrition is
integrated with other relevant disciplines in the context of different
scenarios (in Phase 1) or real clinical experiences (later phases).
Attached is an Excel spreadsheet showing activities within the program
which have a focus relevant to nutrition. The majority of these
activities take place in Phase 1 which is when most campus-based
teaching occurs. In subsequent phases, students are taught in informal
clinical tutorials which are not recorded in the Curriculum Map"
The spreadsheet mentioned listed 54 course streams which included
something about nutrition.
Please don't repeat the lie again, Carole.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Martin
2010-08-22 08:53:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
Don't blame me.
He did not call YOU a liar Carole.
The problem is that you seem to accept any old quacks lie at face
value. You do zero research to check their claims. And even when you
are told that it is a lie and are spoonfed the explanation why exactly
it is wrong, you still come up with lame excuses like the one below.
Post by carole
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
That is because a course in nutrition without any relation to the rest
of human physiology is pretty meaningless. In other words, real
doctors learn about nutrition in the full context of how the body
works.
Post by carole
carole
www.conspiracee.com
Post by Peter Bowditch
In 2008 I was punished by having to listen to a quack promoting goji
juice who, of course, came up with the same lie. (He didn't explain
how much training in nutrition the people selling the juice through
MLM got, but why should he?)
I wrote to the two biggest medical schools in Sydney, and here is what
"Your enquiry was forwarded to me as I am the academic responsible for
mapping the University of Sydney Medical Program. Our course is an
integrated program where teaching and learning is focused on the
knowledge and skills required to solve clinical problems, so we do not
teach "courses" or units of study as such. In the first two years of
our program we teach medicine in "Blocks", according to body systems,
which gives students the foundations for applying scientific knowledge
to the practice of medicine in later years. Within the Blocks,
teaching (including lectures and tutorials and supporting resources)
are focussed around a particular clinical problem of the week. One of
the Blocks is "Endocrine-Nutrition-Gastroenterology" where there is a
problem and associated teaching focused on nutrition. However
nutrition is also integrated into other subjects throughout the
course, such as in basic science teaching in Molecular Medicine or
Biochemistry, and in clinical teaching, such as in Surgery. I hope
this answers your query, please feel free to contact me if you have
other questions"
"The UNSW Medicine curriculum does not address specific disciplines by
courses. Instead learning about a topic such as nutrition is
integrated with other relevant disciplines in the context of different
scenarios (in Phase 1) or real clinical experiences (later phases).
Attached is an Excel spreadsheet showing activities within the program
which have a focus relevant to nutrition. The majority of these
activities take place in Phase 1 which is when most campus-based
teaching occurs. In subsequent phases, students are taught in informal
clinical tutorials which are not recorded in the Curriculum Map"
The spreadsheet mentioned listed 54 course streams which included
something about nutrition.
Please don't repeat the lie again, Carole.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
carole
2010-08-23 11:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
Don't blame me.
He did not call YOU a liar Carole.
The problem is that you seem to accept any old quacks lie at face
value. You do zero research to check their claims. And even when you
are told that it is a lie and are spoonfed the explanation why exactly
it is wrong, you still come up with lame excuses like the one below.
I've said it once and I'll say it again.
As long as conventional medicine continues to spin their lies and suppress
alternative medicine, I don't feel bad about spinning things back.
I don't apologise for making a mistake, if I am making one and I bet if
there's a contradition of two viewpoints, it will most likely be
conventional medicine which is lying because their whole industry is based
on lies and propaganda.
But you wouldn't know that because you believe the system works for the good
of the people.
It takes a conspiracy theorist see the level of deceit, or a cop or some
investigative type person who is used to the deception some sociopaths will
sink to.
Post by Martin
Post by carole
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
That is because a course in nutrition without any relation to the rest
of human physiology is pretty meaningless. In other words, real
doctors learn about nutrition in the full context of how the body
works.
Don't you mean that a course in medicine without nutrition etc...?
Yes, well that's all very nice. But they would be learning the minimum
amount about nutrition and the emphasis is always towards the drugs.
You need to read up on the Rockefeller promotion of pharmaceutical drugs by
giving massive donations to medical schools.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Peter Bowditch
2010-08-22 13:52:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
You were told wrong, and now you have been given correct information.
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.

I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.

I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
Post by carole
carole
www.conspiracee.com
Post by Peter Bowditch
In 2008 I was punished by having to listen to a quack promoting goji
juice who, of course, came up with the same lie. (He didn't explain
how much training in nutrition the people selling the juice through
MLM got, but why should he?)
I wrote to the two biggest medical schools in Sydney, and here is what
"Your enquiry was forwarded to me as I am the academic responsible for
mapping the University of Sydney Medical Program. Our course is an
integrated program where teaching and learning is focused on the
knowledge and skills required to solve clinical problems, so we do not
teach "courses" or units of study as such. In the first two years of
our program we teach medicine in "Blocks", according to body systems,
which gives students the foundations for applying scientific knowledge
to the practice of medicine in later years. Within the Blocks,
teaching (including lectures and tutorials and supporting resources)
are focussed around a particular clinical problem of the week. One of
the Blocks is "Endocrine-Nutrition-Gastroenterology" where there is a
problem and associated teaching focused on nutrition. However
nutrition is also integrated into other subjects throughout the
course, such as in basic science teaching in Molecular Medicine or
Biochemistry, and in clinical teaching, such as in Surgery. I hope
this answers your query, please feel free to contact me if you have
other questions"
"The UNSW Medicine curriculum does not address specific disciplines by
courses. Instead learning about a topic such as nutrition is
integrated with other relevant disciplines in the context of different
scenarios (in Phase 1) or real clinical experiences (later phases).
Attached is an Excel spreadsheet showing activities within the program
which have a focus relevant to nutrition. The majority of these
activities take place in Phase 1 which is when most campus-based
teaching occurs. In subsequent phases, students are taught in informal
clinical tutorials which are not recorded in the Curriculum Map"
The spreadsheet mentioned listed 54 course streams which included
something about nutrition.
Please don't repeat the lie again, Carole.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
I'm @RatbagsDotCom on Twitter
Bob Officer
2010-08-22 18:38:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 23:52:29 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, Peter
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
You were told wrong, and now you have been given correct information.
The question then will be: How long before she tries to reuse this
lie?

It is a prime example of her exception false authority routinely,
because the fallacy fits her preconceived outcome.

And to read her favorite replied is we all but her have a dumbed down
education, when in fact she is the person which we have to spoon feed
the dumb down science to all the time.
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
That sounds very specific, to me.
Post by Peter Bowditch
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.
I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.
I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
I stopped specific reading classes when I was 5 or 6. I did take a
class at the offered by the local JC when I was 12, called Contextual
Reading, Fallacies and Falsehoods. It was oriented into teaching
people how to detect and avoid the use of fallacies. The reading
portion was integrated into logic, critical thinking and writing.

Carole, may also subscribe to the Big Lie that a human only uses a
small fragment of their brain. However newer test show humans use
nearly 100% of their brain at one time or another during the day
Depending upon the task that they are doing at the time.
Specifically, Some people tested, due to the tasks which they do, get
into the habit of using only specific portions of the brain at one
time. The more tasks and variances in the tasks tended to required
more neural pathways to be active. Finding that the people who do
many things routinely have more active neural pathways available and
open to use.
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
In 2008 I was punished by having to listen to a quack promoting goji
juice who, of course, came up with the same lie. (He didn't explain
how much training in nutrition the people selling the juice through
MLM got, but why should he?)
I wrote to the two biggest medical schools in Sydney, and here is what
"Your enquiry was forwarded to me as I am the academic responsible for
mapping the University of Sydney Medical Program. Our course is an
integrated program where teaching and learning is focused on the
knowledge and skills required to solve clinical problems, so we do not
teach "courses" or units of study as such. In the first two years of
our program we teach medicine in "Blocks", according to body systems,
which gives students the foundations for applying scientific knowledge
to the practice of medicine in later years. Within the Blocks,
teaching (including lectures and tutorials and supporting resources)
are focussed around a particular clinical problem of the week. One of
the Blocks is "Endocrine-Nutrition-Gastroenterology" where there is a
problem and associated teaching focused on nutrition. However
nutrition is also integrated into other subjects throughout the
course, such as in basic science teaching in Molecular Medicine or
Biochemistry, and in clinical teaching, such as in Surgery. I hope
this answers your query, please feel free to contact me if you have
other questions"
"The UNSW Medicine curriculum does not address specific disciplines by
courses. Instead learning about a topic such as nutrition is
integrated with other relevant disciplines in the context of different
scenarios (in Phase 1) or real clinical experiences (later phases).
Attached is an Excel spreadsheet showing activities within the program
which have a focus relevant to nutrition. The majority of these
activities take place in Phase 1 which is when most campus-based
teaching occurs. In subsequent phases, students are taught in informal
clinical tutorials which are not recorded in the Curriculum Map"
The spreadsheet mentioned listed 54 course streams which included
something about nutrition.
Please don't repeat the lie again, Carole.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-23 05:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 23:52:29 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, Peter
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
You were told wrong, and now you have been given correct information.
The question then will be: How long before she tries to reuse this
lie?
I'll just keep using the lie to annoy you bob.
Post by Bob Officer
It is a prime example of her exception false authority routinely,
because the fallacy fits her preconceived outcome.
We all have our compulsions bob.
Apparently yours is to nag and play internet cop.
Post by Bob Officer
And to read her favorite replied is we all but her have a dumbed down
education, when in fact she is the person which we have to spoon feed
the dumb down science to all the time.
Not as dumbed down in some ways as yours it would seem.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
That sounds very specific, to me.
That could be a euphamism for anything. Who are you trying to kid?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Peter Bowditch
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.
I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.
I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
I stopped specific reading classes when I was 5 or 6. I did take a
class at the offered by the local JC when I was 12, called Contextual
Reading, Fallacies and Falsehoods. It was oriented into teaching
people how to detect and avoid the use of fallacies. The reading
portion was integrated into logic, critical thinking and writing.
Well I think that's absolutely marvellous bob, so you call yourself an
expert now, or are you the expert's expert?
Post by Bob Officer
Carole, may also subscribe to the Big Lie that a human only uses a
small fragment of their brain. However newer test show humans use
nearly 100% of their brain at one time or another during the day
Depending upon the task that they are doing at the time.
Specifically, Some people tested, due to the tasks which they do, get
into the habit of using only specific portions of the brain at one
time. The more tasks and variances in the tasks tended to required
more neural pathways to be active. Finding that the people who do
many things routinely have more active neural pathways available and
open to use.
Looks like bob is an expert in brain patterns too.
Wow, the mind boggles at his achievements, doesn't it?
Is there anything bob can't turn his attentions to ...internet police,
copyright expert, brainwave pattern expert, rock expert ....the list goes
on.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-23 05:42:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:26:32 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 23:52:29 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, Peter
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
You were told wrong, and now you have been given correct information.
The question then will be: How long before she tries to reuse this
lie?
I'll just keep using the lie to annoy you bob.
You just make yourself look more stupid each time you do, Carole.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
It is a prime example of her exception false authority routinely,
because the fallacy fits her preconceived outcome.
We all have our compulsions bob.
Apparently yours is to nag and play internet cop.
Really. and your is swallowing any bullshit that looks like it will
fit your preconceived notions.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
And to read her favorite replied is we all but her have a dumbed down
education, when in fact she is the person which we have to spoon feed
the dumb down science to all the time.
Not as dumbed down in some ways as yours it would seem.
Your is so dumbed down you can't even use the logic you claimed you
were taught in school.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
That sounds very specific, to me.
That could be a euphamism for anything. Who are you trying to kid?
No one Carole. That the point.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Peter Bowditch
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.
I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.
I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
I stopped specific reading classes when I was 5 or 6. I did take a
class at the offered by the local JC when I was 12, called Contextual
Reading, Fallacies and Falsehoods. It was oriented into teaching
people how to detect and avoid the use of fallacies. The reading
portion was integrated into logic, critical thinking and writing.
Well I think that's absolutely marvellous bob, so you call yourself an
expert now, or are you the expert's expert?
I am still a student Carole. I learn new things all the time.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Carole, may also subscribe to the Big Lie that a human only uses a
small fragment of their brain. However newer test show humans use
nearly 100% of their brain at one time or another during the day
Depending upon the task that they are doing at the time.
Specifically, Some people tested, due to the tasks which they do, get
into the habit of using only specific portions of the brain at one
time. The more tasks and variances in the tasks tended to required
more neural pathways to be active. Finding that the people who do
many things routinely have more active neural pathways available and
open to use.
Looks like bob is an expert in brain patterns too.
Wow, the mind boggles at his achievements, doesn't it?
Is there anything bob can't turn his attentions to ...internet police,
copyright expert, brainwave pattern expert, rock expert ....the list goes
on.
And on and on. The mind is not any good unless you use it. yours
seems to mostly unused. What a waste.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-23 11:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:26:32 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
The question then will be: How long before she tries to reuse this
lie?
I'll just keep using the lie to annoy you bob.
You just make yourself look more stupid each time you do, Carole.
And you just make yourself look more rude everytime you call me stupid.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
It is a prime example of her exception false authority routinely,
because the fallacy fits her preconceived outcome.
We all have our compulsions bob.
Apparently yours is to nag and play internet cop.
Really. and your is swallowing any bullshit that looks like it will
fit your preconceived notions.
No, your preconceived notions are that the system isn't corrupt, there are
no alternative cures and that homeopathy is a con.
So you are the deluded one, not me.
But you think that just because you have some technical know how, and some
top secret software that you are a just so fabulous.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
And to read her favorite replied is we all but her have a dumbed down
education, when in fact she is the person which we have to spoon feed
the dumb down science to all the time.
Not as dumbed down in some ways as yours it would seem.
Your is so dumbed down you can't even use the logic you claimed you
were taught in school.
Yes, I can bob.
Besides I am a naturally rational personality type, and also a mastermind.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
That sounds very specific, to me.
That could be a euphamism for anything. Who are you trying to kid?
No one Carole. That the point.
Integrated into other subjects, could be a euphism for anything.
Merely making a comment during a lecture such as "of course a person needs
good nutrition" could be all it takes to claim that nutrition is integrated
into a course.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Peter Bowditch
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.
I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.
I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
I stopped specific reading classes when I was 5 or 6. I did take a
class at the offered by the local JC when I was 12, called Contextual
Reading, Fallacies and Falsehoods. It was oriented into teaching
people how to detect and avoid the use of fallacies. The reading
portion was integrated into logic, critical thinking and writing.
Well I think that's absolutely marvellous bob, so you call yourself an
expert now, or are you the expert's expert?
I am still a student Carole. I learn new things all the time.
Yes, but how useful are these things bob, in a real sense?
I think we've covered that topic.
You claim this and that ...my eyes glaze over and we've covered that topic.

Look bob, I couldn't give a rat's arse that you claim to be a perpetual
student.
As far as I'm concerned you are a pigheaded bloke who thinks he knows
everything.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Carole, may also subscribe to the Big Lie that a human only uses a
small fragment of their brain. However newer test show humans use
nearly 100% of their brain at one time or another during the day
Depending upon the task that they are doing at the time.
Specifically, Some people tested, due to the tasks which they do, get
into the habit of using only specific portions of the brain at one
time. The more tasks and variances in the tasks tended to required
more neural pathways to be active. Finding that the people who do
many things routinely have more active neural pathways available and
open to use.
Looks like bob is an expert in brain patterns too.
Wow, the mind boggles at his achievements, doesn't it?
Is there anything bob can't turn his attentions to ...internet police,
copyright expert, brainwave pattern expert, rock expert ....the list goes
on.
And on and on. The mind is not any good unless you use it. yours
seems to mostly unused. What a waste.
Get stuffed bob.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-24 00:09:43 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:42:02 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:26:32 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
The question then will be: How long before she tries to reuse this
lie?
I'll just keep using the lie to annoy you bob.
You just make yourself look more stupid each time you do, Carole.
And you just make yourself look more rude everytime you call me stupid.
Then stop being stupid, Carole. Isn't that obvious?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
It is a prime example of her exception false authority routinely,
because the fallacy fits her preconceived outcome.
We all have our compulsions bob.
Apparently yours is to nag and play internet cop.
Really. and your is swallowing any bullshit that looks like it will
fit your preconceived notions.
No, your preconceived notions are that the system isn't corrupt, there are
I have never said that, Carole. You keep saying they are corrupt but
refuse to look at the Subject of conjecture Medicine which is 100%
corrupt.
Post by carole
no alternative cures and that homeopathy is a con.
That right anything without Evidence is a con.
Post by carole
So you are the deluded one, not me.
But you think that just because you have some technical know how, and some
top secret software that you are a just so fabulous.
It isn't top secret, Carole. you introducing red herrings and
fallacies.

What are you doing?

Trying to look like an idiot?

<snip>

Come back when you have a foundation of knowledge to realize how
utterly Stupid you have just made yourself look, Carole.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-24 17:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 21:42:02 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
<crap snipped>
Post by Bob Officer
Post by carole
no alternative cures and that homeopathy is a con.
That right anything without Evidence is a con.
You should go back to first grade and do some refresher courses in
comprehension.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
carole
2010-08-23 22:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
You were told wrong, and now you have been given correct information.
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.
I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.
I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
Well you can bet that however much information on nutrition is integrated
into a medical course, you can be assured that it will be a minimum to
satisfy public demand with the large bulk of the course still devoted to
pharmaceuticals.
It would only be through public pressure that any information on nutriton
would be contained in any medical course since the Rockefeller campaign to
eliminate all forms of alternative medicine since 1900 with massive
donations to all universities that would teach pharmaceuticals.

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Mark STANLEY Probert
2010-08-23 22:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
You were told wrong, and now you have been given correct information.
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.
I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.
I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
Well you can bet that however much information on nutrition is integrated
into a medical course, you can be assured that it will be a minimum to
satisfy public demand with the large bulk of the course still devoted to
pharmaceuticals.
Wrong. Read Peter's letter. Open your mind (after you find it).
Post by carole
It would only be through public pressure that any information on nutriton
would be contained in any medical course since the Rockefeller campaign to
eliminate all forms of alternative medicine since 1900 with massive
donations to all universities that would teach pharmaceuticals.
WAIT a cotton picking minute! You said it was a AMA campaign led by
Fishbein. Which is it? You cannot have two.
Martin
2010-08-24 16:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Post by Peter Bowditch
Post by carole
Apparently medical people only get about 2 hours of lectures during a whole
4 years course.
The topic of nutrition isn't covered.
Oh, God, that lie again.
Well that's what I got told.
You were told wrong, and now you have been given correct information.
Post by carole
Don't blame me.
And "integrated into other subjects" isn't very specific.
When I went to university I suppose that only about three hours was
spent in a class specifically devoted to the statistical technique
called "analysis of variance". It was, however, integrated into almost
every course I did in perception or cognitive psychology whenever an
experiment was required.
I teach IT at TAFE. There is one unit on Microsoft Word in the
Certificate 2 in IT course, but it is integrated into more than half
of the units, and in each one the students learn more about how to use
it. Similarly with Excel.
I haven't done a course called "Reading" since I was about eight years
old, but reading was integrated into almost every subject I did until
the end of high school. In fact, I still learn something every day and
often those things are about reading.
Well you can bet that however much information on nutrition is integrated
into a medical course, you can be assured that it will be a minimum to
satisfy public demand with the large bulk of the course still devoted to
pharmaceuticals.
Why would any corrupt organization care a rats ass about 'popular
demand'??? You're trying to have your cake and eat too, again.
Post by carole
It would only be through public pressure that any information on nutriton
would be contained in any medical course since the Rockefeller campaign to
eliminate all forms of alternative medicine since 1900 with massive
donations to all universities that would teach pharmaceuticals.
carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-21 22:39:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 09:57:44 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative,
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Plus I've heard that all pathogenic bugs devolve to something less
pathogenic.
It is not in the interests of the bugs to kill their host.
This is correct. However, it does not answer the question about why
first contact pathogens are so lethal if it's dependent on pure
bloodstream.
You're trying to play the old immunity and natural protection that
vaccinations bring, right?
There were NO vaccinations back in the Middle Ages, so that cannot be a
factor! Try and learn at least _something_ about the history of
medicine.
Now try again - and without your "Big Pharma" screed this time.
Why were first contact pathogens so lethal, if "pure bloodstream" is
effective against infections?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I asked this before, but never got a reply, so let's repeat the
question: has anyone been able to duplicate Rife's results? If not,
then it's more than unlikely that Rife was right.
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
I saw those too but were going to use them later.

Loading Image...

Looks like this could be duplicated easily.

However all one needs to do is look at the Wavelength of the source.
also something which surprises me is that page state UV caused an
increase in culture Growth. Odd, UV Light in high concentrations is
known to be a sterilizer. 160Khz is the middle of the Low
frenquency/Long wavelength Radio. 585meters wave length. The rest of
his hand written notes have much the same information. Seem like it
would be easy to check the findings if the Research group in canada
would allow it.
Post by Steelclaws
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Odd and I except silence becuase you falsified another one of her
claims.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Which would not stop anyone from re-creating Rife's experiment, since
his claims are available.
Apparently he turned to the bottle after that.
Rife was a genius and that was his thing.
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his devices
have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in existence,
nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Seems simple and I don't see genius. good machine work and precision
dial indicators. I see one set of what appears to a phased light
splitter in one image
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to make
such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
N-Rays all over again. To bad he turned to the bottle in the face of
failure.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Which is meant to be a message to others also.
And look, there is nothing to stop you doing some research for
yourself to find other people who continue on similar things - if
you are so interested.
I don't have or work in a laboratory, so it would be impractical for
me. But I take this to mean you weren't able to find anyone who has
been able - or even tried to - duplicate Rife's research.
Do you mean personally, or on the internet?
I think there are people continuing on with Rife's research.
Since I can find people getting convicted for fraud when they sell Rife
devices and make fraudulent health claims, looks like you're completely
wrong about Rife's "discoveries" being unavailable today.
http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/44/2/115.pdf
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20071221&slug=indictment21m
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4445094&iSaleNo=16871&iSaleSectionNo=2
This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
which lead to this site:
http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
There are people working on the microscopes here and there, and there
are people using radiowave frequencies to zap bugs. Hulda Clark was
one wasn't she?
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not generate
radiowaves.
The current was strong enough to leave electrical burns in one
recorded case. The treatment had to be extremely painful. Indeed
Electro-shock Therapy is banned in the US.

I see one manufacture went to jail for endangering the public by
exposing people to High Voltage. He made 18million from his
con-artistry.

And interesting explanation can be found here:

http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm

"Hubbard possessed photographs of Rife 1 and Rife 2. The first was
mounted horizontally on an ordinary optical bench, while the second
appeared to be an upright version of the first. Hubbard was adamant
that neither of these microscopes were still in existence, as they
had been extensively cannibalized during the construction of later
models. Rife's masterpiece was No 3, known as the Universal, built in
1933. After that he produced Rife 4 and Rife 5, which was completed
in 1938. Hubbard positively identified the microscope then housed at
the Wellcome Museum as Rife 5. "

And

"John F Crane, who was still alive, worked as a mechanic with Rife
from the early days of the microscopes. He became involved in the
cancer cure business and was finally prosecuted for fraud with two
others, and a prison sentence of three years was passed on him.
According to Hubbard, Crane was almost illiterate, he had no
scientific ideas and very little understanding of optics. The
importance of Crane was that he possessed Rife 3 (the Universal) and
also Rife 4. No-one knew how he came into the possession of these
microscopes but he would not lend the Universal to anyone for an
indemnity of less than a quarter of a million dollars. Crane had
written a book about the microscopes which was little more that a
hotch- potch of anecdote and exaggeration. Hubbard showed a copy of
this book. Crane was not rich, and at the time was in poor straits. "

Looks like this contradicts Carole's someone broke in and destroyed
Rife's machines.

So we know one of Rife's scope (#4) is in working condition and in
Canada. Another is in the museum in Wellcome, England (#5). No1 and 2
were cannibalized by Rife himself. and it seems the left over parts
minus optics of Number 2 was sold at auction. So all but Rife #1 are
accounted. #4 and #5 was in the posession of Crane.

Some speculation of a duplicate of a #3 microscope is in some older
correspondence.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
My interest is a toxemia, pure bloodstream and acidosis.
I think the body can get rid of bugs itself with the right cellsalt
combo. It took me 20 years to figure it out though.
My theory is that all those oldies with porous bones have had the
minerals taken from their bones to keep them healthy. The bones are
their health bank.
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental pathogenetic
mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a) failure to
achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and development;
(b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone mass and
disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost bone due to
defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known to play a
critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while calcium and
vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism also
contribute. There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition to
the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth factors,
and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number of genes have
been associated with differences in bone mass and fragility. It is now
possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess fracture risk, and reduce that
risk with antiresorptive or other available therapies. However, new and
more effective approaches are likely to emerge from a better
understanding of the regulators of bone cell function."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Which is good news. I suspect Nature really didn't design the human
body to live much beyond the ability to reproduce and raise viable
children.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Once the bank is empty, they have nothing left to fall back on.
And a lot of these oldies have deficient diets - white bread toast and
marmalade, corn beef and mashed potatoes, a few cups of tea for their
calcium.
Vitamin D and calcium deficiency can be a factor in osteoporosis, but
loss of bone density is not treatable with minerals and vitamins except
calcium and vitamin D in those cases.
How much Calcium available is tea?

Doesn't the oxilates in tea bind with the calcium?
That is answered here:
http://nutrition.about.com/od/askyournutritionist/f/oxalates.htm
and
http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/az1042.pdf

I wonder how much Carole's playing around with Cell Salts has
effected her overall calcium levels? Especially when the second
source mentions excessive doses of Magnesium and Phosphorus can
effect how the calcium is absorbed.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Moreover, given that it's likely as Rife's book was published in
1953, he was not aware of bacterial DNA. His claim would mean that
bacteria would be able to rewrite their DNA completely in a different
environment, and it has never been observed to happen.
The bugs are pleomorphic.
There are 10 basic forms which change according to their environment.
When the body becomes toxic they turn pathogenic and vice versa.
As usual, how about citing some _valid_ research instead of just making
claims? A peer-reviewed article will do nicely.
Do you expect anything from Miss Fallacy?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
I don't think that DNA is as fixed as science thinks.
http://www.xenophilia.com/zb0012d.htm
"Over the past century physicians such as William Russell, Wilhelm
Reich, James Young, John Nuzum, Virginia Livingston, and numerous
other researchers, have reported on the existence of a specific
bacterium associated with cancer. The microbe is an ubiquitous,
pleomorphic, cell wall deficient ("mycoplasma-like") organism with a
complex life cycle. In its various guises, the microbe may resemble
staphylococci, diphtheroids, bacilli, fungi, host cell inclusions,
viruses, and Russell bodies" [ 88 | 89
| 90 | 91 ]
Reference 88 went to a fibromyalgia site that had nary a word about any
bacteria causing cancer.
89 goes to a page of a guy who believes AIDS is a cancer. So much for
his credibility then.
90 is not available.
91 is the AIDS crank again.
Sorry, that is an unreliable source, judging by the references.
Your site also has nothing to do with DNA and how mutable it is or not.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Show me how Y. pestis can be treated with natural cures.
Simple, a pure bloodstream.
I guess different nature cure people would have their own ways of
creating a pure bloodstream and they might work, maybe some herbs,
fasting or whatever. My system is 1/2 tspn each of bicarb and
cream of tartar in a little water, as well as calcium carbonate
tablets. This to be repeated at intervals until the infection
subsides.
Well, after all you have 40-60% chance of surviving it with your
treatment in the bubonic form, 0% change with the pneumonic form.
But you don't know that.
Yes, I do know that. Those are the survival rates for the forms left
untreated.
Post by carole
As I've already said, I can get rid of parasites, fungi and
infections with cellsalts.
And you still have your fungal infection, as you yourself have said
you have a recurring fungal infection.
Yes it recurs however, with each occurrence it gets less which was
also the case with my housedust allergy. Which eventually disappeared.
Also the objective is to maintain a pure bloodstream. The athletes
foot is merely an indication that my bloodstream is becoming toxic.
Using a fungicide is suppressing the symptoms which is fine in a way,
but not ideal.
Fungcides kill the fungus that is causing the symptoms. It goes directly
to the cause.
Did you not know that fungi are external infections? Your body does not
produce the fungus.
you are going to shatter her make believe world, if you get through
to her.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
This is the nature cure system that was taught before the
pharmaceutical business with disease began its campaign to DDT and
eliminate all alternative forms of medicine.
Like there _were_ any "alternative" forms of medicine... There is only
medicine, meaning that which can be shown to work and then there is
quackery, which cannot be shown to work.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Why not bubonic plague?
Yes, it is more deadly but that isn't the point.
The point is can bacterial infections be treated with purifying the
bloodstream?
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
Amazing, I see why she gets upset at the world evidence. Every time
she mentions "Beleifs, and feelings it needs to be pointed out these
are the basis of dogma. Dogma the opposite of science.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
If cellsalts can cure the bloodstream and stop infections, fungi and
parasites which is no mean feat, maybe they can stop any bacterial
disease. Has it been tried?
Not that I've ever heard.
That is a mighty big if. Since you admit you have only pure speculation,
I will treat it just as I treat any pure speculation: interesting idea,
but needs to be researched.
Come up with Data and Evidence.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
I'm not vicious enough to suggest you put it to the test by
deliberately infecting yourself the plague.
You could suggest it and it wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary
for this ng.
However, I wouldn't take the chance even if I could find it.
And even if I did treat it successfully, who would believe me?
As I've said before, anecdotes are valid starting points for looking
further into a claim. Were you able to do it, researchers would be
most likely very interested in looking into it. You'd need to show,
though, that you managed to clear it faster than the normal recovery
time without treatment would be.
Well I'm not going to do any double blind studies as I don't consider
it necessary when anybody can test it for themselves.
I've already explained why anecdotes are not evidence, and why research
is necessary. How do you discount how much your faith in the treatment
affects the perceived outcome? IOW, how do you discount the placebo
effect? (Yes, I know you can't accept the reality of placebo, as that
makes your little speculation very doubtful.)
Post by carole
These are all commonly available affordable ingredients.
Its no big deal for any person to test for themselves.
I'm not a great believer in the great pharmaceutical rigors or double
blind studies and all their bureacracy and manipulations.
I can understand why... Rigorous testing just might show you've invested
a lot of time and effort on nothing.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
A pure bloodstream is a theory that has been around for a long time.
How some nature cure people achieve it, I don't know. Some say
fasting which never worked for me.
However, I can eliminate fungi, infections and parasites with
cellsalts - mainly reducing acidity.
I think that says it all for me and anybody is free to try it for
themselves.
I said valid evidence. You should know by now I don't credit
anecdotes for much.
The cellsalt theory has been used by nature cure / naturapaths since
mid/late 1800s.
It is a system of medicine worked out by schuessler.
Argument by age. It's a fallacy, you know, and not valid evidence.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
What if a pure bloodstream was all it took to prevent a person ever
succumbing to any of these diseases?
Has this ever been tested?
That's what I've been asking.
Its news to me if anybody has ever used this system.
Maybe going right back to 1900 or something like that before
pharmaceuticals.
Don't guess, find out if anyone has.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
What does "pure bloodstream" mean in the first place? The term is a
bit vague.
A pure bloodstream is that condition where fungi, bacteria and parasites
are knocked out.
So nobody has it then? Also, what makes it different from immune system
- which we do know about and also about how it works?
[paranoia snipped, I have no interest in dealing with conspiracy
screeds]
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/childnutrition.html for starters.
Go through that, and just tell me what you think would be wrong with
that advice.
That sounds ideal diet advice --except needs more calcium.
Milk was recommended in it, and milk is a source of calcium.
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Nutrition is no defense against some pathogens. Those 24 million
Europeans who died of Y. pestis infection ate very varied diets, as
the peasant and nobility diets were highly different. Regional diets
also varied quite a lot, but none of that made any difference to the
mortality rate in different societal and geographical groups and
subgroups.
Yes, but how pure were their bloodstreams?
eg if they had parasites it is an indication they didn't.
Do you have the slightest idea how parasites have evolved and how they
attach to a host? Or what it takes to get rid of them?
Post by carole
I know the ancient egyptians used to have parasites, their bones show
evidence.
Mostly bilharzia. Do you know what that is and how it gets to a host?
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Yes, we know vaccines can cause side effects, but serious ones are
very rare indeed.
True, and they do seem to save lives in the third world.
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start again.
Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids are again
dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
I have posted articles about that.

Sad isn't it?
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Steelclaws
2010-08-22 09:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
I saw those too but were going to use them later.
http://www.rife.org/rifelab/Bubonic%20Plague.jpg
Looks like this could be duplicated easily.
However all one needs to do is look at the Wavelength of the source.
also something which surprises me is that page state UV caused an
increase in culture Growth. Odd, UV Light in high concentrations is
known to be a sterilizer. 160Khz is the middle of the Low
frenquency/Long wavelength Radio. 585meters wave length. The rest of
his hand written notes have much the same information. Seem like it
would be easy to check the findings if the Research group in canada
would allow it.
Agreed. There is a very strong tendency in "researchers" who do not
follow the scientific method to keep very quiet about negative results.
It's usually because they invest too much personal expectations and
belief into their experiments.

They also never understand that failed experiments can be of real value,
the Michelson-Morley one being the most famous example.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Odd and I except silence becuase you falsified another one of her
claims.
She refused to look claiming they were "pharmaceutical propaganda." Even
if I credited that, I fail to see how that one and the auction site with
a Rife-built microscope could be that.

But the refusal to see reality is strong in her.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his
devices have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in
existence, nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Seems simple and I don't see genius. good machine work and precision
dial indicators. I see one set of what appears to a phased light
splitter in one image
I'm not a specialist in that area, so I have to defer judgement. That's
why the qualifiers.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to
make such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
N-Rays all over again. To bad he turned to the bottle in the face of
failure.
Agreed. It also might explain why he trashed his lab, as alcoholics have
been known to take their frustrations out by trashing inanimate objects.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm
This was very interesting on that site:

"Rife No 5 was tested in 1978 while it was at the Wellcome Museum, by a
Professor of Physics from Imperial College in London. Practically the
whole instrument was dismantled. There seemed nothing particularly
remarkable about it except that it had been constructed in such a way as
to make the work of microscopy tedious and cumbersome, particularly in
respect of focussing the instrument. Using all the original optics it
was quite impossible to obtain an image, but using a light-source,
eyepiece and objective from a Reichart microscope, a very imperfect
image of leukaemic blood cells was finally obtained. The image was about
30% larger than would have been expected with the use of a x6 objective
and a x40 eyepiece, and this was no doubt due to the prismatic
arrangement in the barrel of the microscope. The resolution, However,
was extremely poor. It was concluded that it would have been impossible
to produce the known photomicrographs with this instrument and it became
clear that this explained the late Dr Gonin's complaint that he could
obtain no results. One of the original photographs labelled "virus of
cancer" was identified as a well-known artifact of optical systems known
as "coma". It is merely a photographic rendering of an anomaly produced
by defects in the optical system."
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not
generate radiowaves.
The current was strong enough to leave electrical burns in one
recorded case. The treatment had to be extremely painful. Indeed
Electro-shock Therapy is banned in the US.
For a very good reason...
Post by Bob Officer
I see one manufacture went to jail for endangering the public by
exposing people to High Voltage. He made 18million from his
con-artistry.
Those con-artists need to be incarcerated, as they're dangerous to the
gullible.
Post by Bob Officer
http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm
"Hubbard possessed photographs of Rife 1 and Rife 2. The first was
mounted horizontally on an ordinary optical bench, while the second
appeared to be an upright version of the first. Hubbard was adamant
that neither of these microscopes were still in existence, as they
had been extensively cannibalized during the construction of later
models. Rife's masterpiece was No 3, known as the Universal, built in
1933. After that he produced Rife 4 and Rife 5, which was completed
in 1938. Hubbard positively identified the microscope then housed at
the Wellcome Museum as Rife 5. "
And
"John F Crane, who was still alive, worked as a mechanic with Rife
from the early days of the microscopes. He became involved in the
cancer cure business and was finally prosecuted for fraud with two
others, and a prison sentence of three years was passed on him.
According to Hubbard, Crane was almost illiterate, he had no
scientific ideas and very little understanding of optics. The
importance of Crane was that he possessed Rife 3 (the Universal) and
also Rife 4. No-one knew how he came into the possession of these
microscopes but he would not lend the Universal to anyone for an
indemnity of less than a quarter of a million dollars. Crane had
written a book about the microscopes which was little more that a
hotch- potch of anecdote and exaggeration. Hubbard showed a copy of
this book. Crane was not rich, and at the time was in poor straits. "
Looks like this contradicts Carole's someone broke in and destroyed
Rife's machines.
Yes, it does indeed. Looks like Rife did what many others like him do:
when the first ones do not work, re-use the parts for making "improved"
ones.
Post by Bob Officer
So we know one of Rife's scope (#4) is in working condition and in
Canada. Another is in the museum in Wellcome, England (#5). No1 and 2
were cannibalized by Rife himself. and it seems the left over parts
minus optics of Number 2 was sold at auction. So all but Rife #1 are
accounted. #4 and #5 was in the posession of Crane.
Some speculation of a duplicate of a #3 microscope is in some older
correspondence.
It just shows that carole is too willing to accept claims which lend
support to her general paranoia - and too intellectually lazy to
actually delve into the background.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental pathogenetic
mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a) failure to
achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and development;
(b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone mass and
disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost bone due
to defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known to play a
critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while calcium and
vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism also
contribute. There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition to
the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth factors,
and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number of genes
have been associated with differences in bone mass and fragility. It
is now possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess fracture risk, and
reduce that risk with antiresorptive or other available therapies.
However, new and more effective approaches are likely to emerge from a
better understanding of the regulators of bone cell function."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Which is good news. I suspect Nature really didn't design the human
body to live much beyond the ability to reproduce and raise viable
children.
That's evolution for you, and it's true for all the other species as
well.

That actually explains why cancers are more common now, as they're
generally middle and old age diseases. Sure, childhood cancers do happen
as well, but those are distinctly a minority.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Once the bank is empty, they have nothing left to fall back on.
And a lot of these oldies have deficient diets - white bread toast
and marmalade, corn beef and mashed potatoes, a few cups of tea for
their calcium.
Vitamin D and calcium deficiency can be a factor in osteoporosis, but
loss of bone density is not treatable with minerals and vitamins
except calcium and vitamin D in those cases.
How much Calcium available is tea?
Doesn't the oxilates in tea bind with the calcium?
http://nutrition.about.com/od/askyournutritionist/f/oxalates.htm
and
http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/az1042.pdf
I wonder how much Carole's playing around with Cell Salts has
effected her overall calcium levels? Especially when the second
source mentions excessive doses of Magnesium and Phosphorus can
effect how the calcium is absorbed.
They are 3X-6X diluted, so depending on how much she guzzles down might
put her in risk.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
The bugs are pleomorphic.
There are 10 basic forms which change according to their
environment. When the body becomes toxic they turn pathogenic and
vice versa.
As usual, how about citing some _valid_ research instead of just
making claims? A peer-reviewed article will do nicely.
Do you expect anything from Miss Fallacy?
I'm curious to see if she even tries to find one.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Fungcides kill the fungus that is causing the symptoms. It goes
directly to the cause.
Did you not know that fungi are external infections? Your body does
not produce the fungus.
you are going to shatter her make believe world, if you get through
to her.
I don't think anyone will be able to do that. Some people would die
before they think - in fact, they quite often do.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
Amazing, I see why she gets upset at the world evidence. Every time
she mentions "Beleifs, and feelings it needs to be pointed out these
are the basis of dogma. Dogma the opposite of science.
At least she admits it's pure speculation.

I've been talking to her about beliefs, but she does not seem to
understand she does have a belief system.

That is also she is so vehemently against the placebo effect, as
admitting that would force her to admit she has no real way of telling
the difference between placebo and her cell salts.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
True, and they do seem to save lives in the third world.
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start
again. Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids are
again dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
I have posted articles about that.
Sad isn't it?
Indeed it is. I hate to see people to suffer just because someone did
not use critical thinking.
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Bob Officer
2010-08-22 20:35:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 09:44:15 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative,
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
I saw those too but were going to use them later.
http://www.rife.org/rifelab/Bubonic%20Plague.jpg
Looks like this could be duplicated easily.
However all one needs to do is look at the Wavelength of the source.
also something which surprises me is that page state UV caused an
increase in culture Growth. Odd, UV Light in high concentrations is
known to be a sterilizer. 160Khz is the middle of the Low
frenquency/Long wavelength Radio. 585meters wave length. The rest of
his hand written notes have much the same information. Seem like it
would be easy to check the findings if the Research group in canada
would allow it.
Agreed. There is a very strong tendency in "researchers" who do not
follow the scientific method to keep very quiet about negative results.
It's usually because they invest too much personal expectations and
belief into their experiments.
Surprising how many failed researcher end up with depression. I can
understand people investing a lot of energy, but to have it end up in
failure is hard, mentally.
Post by Steelclaws
They also never understand that failed experiments can be of real value,
the Michelson-Morley one being the most famous example.
One that is studied in nearly every high school and college level
physics class.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Odd and I except silence becuase you falsified another one of her
claims.
She refused to look claiming they were "pharmaceutical propaganda." Even
if I credited that, I fail to see how that one and the auction site with
a Rife-built microscope could be that.
There are dozens of pro Rife Sites, usually as fronts for people
trying to sell the unlawful and dangerous Rife Beam Devices.

I am almost tempted to cobble one up to actually see what it really
produces. I know people at the Lab have some great testing resources
and have alway given me help when asked.
Post by Steelclaws
But the refusal to see reality is strong in her.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his
devices have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in
existence, nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Seems simple and I don't see genius. good machine work and precision
dial indicators. I see one set of what appears to a phased light
splitter in one image
I'm not a specialist in that area, so I have to defer judgement. That's
why the qualifiers.
My Certification is a 40 years old in electron microscopy. Today They
use digital imaging in place of the old Photoplate technology. Much
has changed as the beam technology became more refined and image
production went digital.

My optical skills are such I have build about 15 telescopes. The
largest is 27 inch F6 used as club community scope. I did the mirror
in 25% of the time using ordinary methods and used diamond grits
based slurry. Technology from making thin sections in one field
carried over to another. Innovative but not original. However both
fields the computation of limiting factors remain the same.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to
make such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
N-Rays all over again. To bad he turned to the bottle in the face of
failure.
Agreed. It also might explain why he trashed his lab, as alcoholics have
been known to take their frustrations out by trashing inanimate objects.
I suspect reading the different accounts, it wasn't so much he
trashed his lab, but he cannibalized his two early microscopes for
parts to make his 3rd, (3a?), 4th and 5th microscopes. The
entanglement with the Rife Beam Ray machines might have been his down
fall as people started reporting the ill effects of what was being
produces. I am beginning to think he was producing X rays off the
Cathodes and the Tubes could have been unshielded. 812a could be made
to produce X rays.

http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q6139.html

How easy it is produce x rays?



very interesting Video. I hope not too many people become inspired to
do this.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm
"Rife No 5 was tested in 1978 while it was at the Wellcome Museum, by a
Professor of Physics from Imperial College in London. Practically the
whole instrument was dismantled. There seemed nothing particularly
remarkable about it except that it had been constructed in such a way as
to make the work of microscopy tedious and cumbersome, particularly in
respect of focussing the instrument. Using all the original optics it
was quite impossible to obtain an image, but using a light-source,
eyepiece and objective from a Reichart microscope, a very imperfect
image of leukaemic blood cells was finally obtained. The image was about
30% larger than would have been expected with the use of a x6 objective
and a x40 eyepiece, and this was no doubt due to the prismatic
arrangement in the barrel of the microscope. The resolution, However,
was extremely poor. It was concluded that it would have been impossible
to produce the known photomicrographs with this instrument and it became
clear that this explained the late Dr Gonin's complaint that he could
obtain no results. One of the original photographs labelled "virus of
cancer" was identified as a well-known artifact of optical systems known
as "coma". It is merely a photographic rendering of an anomaly produced
by defects in the optical system."
I saw that, also.

Coma is a very common optic aberration which can produce false
artifacts. You can see it in cheap digital camera lenses as color or
contrast distortions at the edge of the lens. usually along with a
pincushion effect. Especially when the Image is overly enlarged
during devolvement of a hard print image from Film.

The easy explanation is most enlargers use simple for magnification
lenses and low quality light condensers. When I did film work, a
seldom even tried with my home set up to enlarged a 35mm much beyond
5 or 6 times even with the finest grain films the artifacts could
really get bad. when I used the Better grade equipment I could go to
10 or 12 times enlargement with no problems. I never brought up the
Films and technology employed then.

Modern rescanning of old photo plates and negatives have in a few
field come up with new discoveries. One of the old all sky survey
from mt palomar observatory were rescanned digitally and now objects
were discovered on those old plates. comparisons with those old
images also brought out new data with stars movements and discovery
of new very wide binary stars. Digital Scanning and enlargement does
remove some of many artifacts from the older system. I am sure
technology in 100 years will remove our artifacts and use old data
(photo plates) to increase knowledge.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not
generate radiowaves.
The current was strong enough to leave electrical burns in one
recorded case. The treatment had to be extremely painful. Indeed
Electro-shock Therapy is banned in the US.
For a very good reason...
I know.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I see one manufacture went to jail for endangering the public by
exposing people to High Voltage. He made 18million from his
con-artistry.
Those con-artists need to be incarcerated, as they're dangerous to the
gullible.
The laws were made not to suppress amazing discoveries. As the video
I posted even simple radio tubes can become dangerous without proper
safeguards. Safeguarding people from dangerous technology is
important.

I wonder if Carole will ever understand why some devices were
declared unlawful to make or sell to the public. and When they are
sold to institutions, proper safeguards have to be in place,
inspections made and procedures followed.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm
"Hubbard possessed photographs of Rife 1 and Rife 2. The first was
mounted horizontally on an ordinary optical bench, while the second
appeared to be an upright version of the first. Hubbard was adamant
that neither of these microscopes were still in existence, as they
had been extensively cannibalized during the construction of later
models. Rife's masterpiece was No 3, known as the Universal, built in
1933. After that he produced Rife 4 and Rife 5, which was completed
in 1938. Hubbard positively identified the microscope then housed at
the Wellcome Museum as Rife 5. "
And
"John F Crane, who was still alive, worked as a mechanic with Rife
from the early days of the microscopes. He became involved in the
cancer cure business and was finally prosecuted for fraud with two
others, and a prison sentence of three years was passed on him.
According to Hubbard, Crane was almost illiterate, he had no
scientific ideas and very little understanding of optics. The
importance of Crane was that he possessed Rife 3 (the Universal) and
also Rife 4. No-one knew how he came into the possession of these
microscopes but he would not lend the Universal to anyone for an
indemnity of less than a quarter of a million dollars. Crane had
written a book about the microscopes which was little more that a
hotch- potch of anecdote and exaggeration. Hubbard showed a copy of
this book. Crane was not rich, and at the time was in poor straits. "
Looks like this contradicts Carole's someone broke in and destroyed
Rife's machines.
when the first ones do not work, re-use the parts for making "improved"
ones.
Or how to try to succeed on a shoe string budget.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
So we know one of Rife's scope (#4) is in working condition and in
Canada. Another is in the museum in Wellcome, England (#5). No1 and 2
were cannibalized by Rife himself. and it seems the left over parts
minus optics of Number 2 was sold at auction. So all but Rife #1 are
accounted. #4 and #5 was in the posession of Crane.
Some speculation of a duplicate of a #3 microscope is in some older
correspondence.
It just shows that carole is too willing to accept claims which lend
support to her general paranoia - and too intellectually lazy to
actually delve into the background.
This was a few minutes (30-45) of reading. then careful note making
to figure out a time line and place the different accounts into a
form one could actually account for all five (or 6 machines if you
count 3a. I almost think 3a could be #1 rebuilt)
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental pathogenetic
mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a) failure to
achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and development;
(b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone mass and
disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost bone due
to defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known to play a
critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while calcium and
vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism also
contribute. There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition to
the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth factors,
and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number of genes
have been associated with differences in bone mass and fragility. It
is now possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess fracture risk, and
reduce that risk with antiresorptive or other available therapies.
However, new and more effective approaches are likely to emerge from a
better understanding of the regulators of bone cell function."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Which is good news. I suspect Nature really didn't design the human
body to live much beyond the ability to reproduce and raise viable
children.
That's evolution for you, and it's true for all the other species as
well.
But it is only an assumption. One of the most common long lived
animals is the common carp. It has the ability to still reproduce
after being alive 250 or more years.
Post by Steelclaws
That actually explains why cancers are more common now, as they're
generally middle and old age diseases. Sure, childhood cancers do happen
as well, but those are distinctly a minority.
Bit image decay in organic replication. The DNA replication decays
over time. The system isn't prefect.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Once the bank is empty, they have nothing left to fall back on.
And a lot of these oldies have deficient diets - white bread toast
and marmalade, corn beef and mashed potatoes, a few cups of tea for
their calcium.
Vitamin D and calcium deficiency can be a factor in osteoporosis, but
loss of bone density is not treatable with minerals and vitamins
except calcium and vitamin D in those cases.
How much Calcium available is tea?
Doesn't the oxilates in tea bind with the calcium?
http://nutrition.about.com/od/askyournutritionist/f/oxalates.htm
and
http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/az1042.pdf
I wonder how much Carole's playing around with Cell Salts has
effected her overall calcium levels? Especially when the second
source mentions excessive doses of Magnesium and Phosphorus can
effect how the calcium is absorbed.
They are 3X-6X diluted, so depending on how much she guzzles down might
put her in risk.
I wonder if she needs to be warned? or if she would take it
seriously. I know She won't listen to people about her fungus still
growing.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
The bugs are pleomorphic.
There are 10 basic forms which change according to their
environment. When the body becomes toxic they turn pathogenic and
vice versa.
As usual, how about citing some _valid_ research instead of just
making claims? A peer-reviewed article will do nicely.
Do you expect anything from Miss Fallacy?
I'm curious to see if she even tries to find one.
We will see.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Fungcides kill the fungus that is causing the symptoms. It goes
directly to the cause.
Did you not know that fungi are external infections? Your body does
not produce the fungus.
you are going to shatter her make believe world, if you get through
to her.
I don't think anyone will be able to do that. Some people would die
before they think - in fact, they quite often do.
All to often.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by Steelclaws
Again, the reference to valid research to support that was?
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
Amazing, I see why she gets upset at the world evidence. Every time
she mentions "Beleifs, and feelings it needs to be pointed out these
are the basis of dogma. Dogma the opposite of science.
At least she admits it's pure speculation.
Speculation without a foundation. You could speculate lots of things.
What if can be fun sometimes. Like writing a fictional story and
playing what if, this happens here how would it change the storyline
and outcome.
Post by Steelclaws
I've been talking to her about beliefs, but she does not seem to
understand she does have a belief system.
That is also she is so vehemently against the placebo effect, as
admitting that would force her to admit she has no real way of telling
the difference between placebo and her cell salts.
I tried to explain that simple before and after slides would be
evidence and what it might show. She rejected it and instead
attempted a "try it yourself" testimonial fallacy.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
True, and they do seem to save lives in the third world.
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start
again. Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids are
again dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
I have posted articles about that.
Sad isn't it?
Indeed it is. I hate to see people to suffer just because someone did
not use critical thinking.
Fear is a dangerous tool. in the US it is mandatory for children to
"attend school" however religious fanatics force loopholes for "home
schooling" and some of the leaders of the fanatics have made a great
deal of money manufacturing books and lesson plans which teach
religious bigotry and nonsense to their children.

The greatest disservice to a child is to give them any sort of
assessment test and then allow that test to become defining them.
Even tests themselves are suspect, I feel. becuase they can be
culturally and environmentally biased.

I have seen smart children become ignorant because they failed to
apply themselves. Specifically in Carole's case she took a
personality assessment and allowed it to make her believe that she
didn't have to work at being a original thinker.

Sad isn't it.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-23 05:56:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 09:44:15 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative,
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by carole
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
I saw those too but were going to use them later.
http://www.rife.org/rifelab/Bubonic%20Plague.jpg
Looks like this could be duplicated easily.
However all one needs to do is look at the Wavelength of the source.
also something which surprises me is that page state UV caused an
increase in culture Growth. Odd, UV Light in high concentrations is
known to be a sterilizer. 160Khz is the middle of the Low
frenquency/Long wavelength Radio. 585meters wave length. The rest of
his hand written notes have much the same information. Seem like it
would be easy to check the findings if the Research group in canada
would allow it.
Agreed. There is a very strong tendency in "researchers" who do not
follow the scientific method to keep very quiet about negative results.
It's usually because they invest too much personal expectations and
belief into their experiments.
Surprising how many failed researcher end up with depression. I can
understand people investing a lot of energy, but to have it end up in
failure is hard, mentally.
I am getting depression just listening to the analysis of the topic.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
They also never understand that failed experiments can be of real value,
the Michelson-Morley one being the most famous example.
One that is studied in nearly every high school and college level
physics class.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Odd and I except silence becuase you falsified another one of her
claims.
She refused to look claiming they were "pharmaceutical propaganda." Even
if I credited that, I fail to see how that one and the auction site with
a Rife-built microscope could be that.
There are dozens of pro Rife Sites, usually as fronts for people
trying to sell the unlawful and dangerous Rife Beam Devices.
Yep, everything the internet cop can't do himself he reckons nobody can do.
Typical superiority complex.
Post by Bob Officer
I am almost tempted to cobble one up to actually see what it really
produces. I know people at the Lab have some great testing resources
and have alway given me help when asked.
No bob, it can't be done.
Its all a scam. You wouldn't want to ruin your reputation now would you?
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
But the refusal to see reality is strong in her.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his
devices have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in
existence, nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Seems simple and I don't see genius. good machine work and precision
dial indicators. I see one set of what appears to a phased light
splitter in one image
I'm not a specialist in that area, so I have to defer judgement. That's
why the qualifiers.
My Certification is a 40 years old in electron microscopy. Today They
use digital imaging in place of the old Photoplate technology. Much
has changed as the beam technology became more refined and image
production went digital.
My optical skills are such I have build about 15 telescopes. The
largest is 27 inch F6 used as club community scope. I did the mirror
in 25% of the time using ordinary methods and used diamond grits
based slurry. Technology from making thin sections in one field
carried over to another. Innovative but not original. However both
fields the computation of limiting factors remain the same.
Like I said, bob is a technician but not much idea about anything else.
Just playing internet cop, harrassing other people, nagging and laying down
the law.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to
make such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
N-Rays all over again. To bad he turned to the bottle in the face of
failure.
Agreed. It also might explain why he trashed his lab, as alcoholics have
been known to take their frustrations out by trashing inanimate objects.
I suspect reading the different accounts, it wasn't so much he
trashed his lab, but he cannibalized his two early microscopes for
parts to make his 3rd, (3a?), 4th and 5th microscopes. The
entanglement with the Rife Beam Ray machines might have been his down
fall as people started reporting the ill effects of what was being
produces. I am beginning to think he was producing X rays off the
Cathodes and the Tubes could have been unshielded. 812a could be made
to produce X rays.
Sure bob. Because you can't build one of microscopes it can't be done,
right?
Post by Bob Officer
http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q6139.html
How easy it is produce x rays?
http://youtu.be/nVIAxN37Krc
very interesting Video. I hope not too many people become inspired to
do this.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm
"Rife No 5 was tested in 1978 while it was at the Wellcome Museum, by a
Professor of Physics from Imperial College in London. Practically the
whole instrument was dismantled. There seemed nothing particularly
remarkable about it except that it had been constructed in such a way as
to make the work of microscopy tedious and cumbersome, particularly in
respect of focussing the instrument. Using all the original optics it
was quite impossible to obtain an image, but using a light-source,
eyepiece and objective from a Reichart microscope, a very imperfect
image of leukaemic blood cells was finally obtained. The image was about
30% larger than would have been expected with the use of a x6 objective
and a x40 eyepiece, and this was no doubt due to the prismatic
arrangement in the barrel of the microscope. The resolution, However,
was extremely poor. It was concluded that it would have been impossible
to produce the known photomicrographs with this instrument and it became
clear that this explained the late Dr Gonin's complaint that he could
obtain no results. One of the original photographs labelled "virus of
cancer" was identified as a well-known artifact of optical systems known
as "coma". It is merely a photographic rendering of an anomaly produced
by defects in the optical system."
<deleted technical stuff>
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not
generate radiowaves.
The current was strong enough to leave electrical burns in one
recorded case. The treatment had to be extremely painful. Indeed
Electro-shock Therapy is banned in the US.
For a very good reason...
I know.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I see one manufacture went to jail for endangering the public by
exposing people to High Voltage. He made 18million from his
con-artistry.
Those con-artists need to be incarcerated, as they're dangerous to the
gullible.
The laws were made not to suppress amazing discoveries. As the video
I posted even simple radio tubes can become dangerous without proper
safeguards. Safeguarding people from dangerous technology is
important.
Get of the raw prawn.
You wouldn't know what the hell you were talking about idiot.
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder if Carole will ever understand why some devices were
declared unlawful to make or sell to the public. and When they are
sold to institutions, proper safeguards have to be in place,
inspections made and procedures followed.
You're a moron bob.
If you had 1/2 a brain it would be lonely, because the other half isn't
there.

As far as I can see you just can't handle anybody knowing anything you don't
know.
You think you are the expert on everything, and if you can't do it can't be
done.
< deleted for brevity>>
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It just shows that carole is too willing to accept claims which lend
support to her general paranoia - and too intellectually lazy to
actually delve into the background.
You're up yourself bob.
A legend in your own mind.
Post by Bob Officer
This was a few minutes (30-45) of reading. then careful note making
to figure out a time line and place the different accounts into a
form one could actually account for all five (or 6 machines if you
count 3a. I almost think 3a could be #1 rebuilt)
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental pathogenetic
mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a) failure to
achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and development;
(b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone mass and
disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost bone due
to defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known to play a
critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while calcium and
vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism also
contribute. There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition to
the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth factors,
and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number of genes
have been associated with differences in bone mass and fragility. It
is now possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess fracture risk, and
reduce that risk with antiresorptive or other available therapies.
However, new and more effective approaches are likely to emerge from a
better understanding of the regulators of bone cell function."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Which is good news. I suspect Nature really didn't design the human
body to live much beyond the ability to reproduce and raise viable
children.
That's evolution for you, and it's true for all the other species as
well.
But it is only an assumption. One of the most common long lived
animals is the common carp. It has the ability to still reproduce
after being alive 250 or more years.
Woopie do!
The plain old common gold fish, hey?
Learn something every day.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
That actually explains why cancers are more common now, as they're
generally middle and old age diseases. Sure, childhood cancers do happen
as well, but those are distinctly a minority.
Bit image decay in organic replication. The DNA replication decays
over time. The system isn't prefect.
No kidding?
You wouldn't be master of the bleeding obvious by any chance, would you
blob --or is it boob?
Never mind, they all fit.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
They are 3X-6X diluted, so depending on how much she guzzles down might
put her in risk.
I wonder if she needs to be warned? or if she would take it
seriously. I know She won't listen to people about her fungus still
growing.
More information from Placbo Bob, ie a legend in his own mind.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Do you expect anything from Miss Fallacy?
I'm curious to see if she even tries to find one.
We will see.
Have fun waiting ...oh, you can always go around the net and do some
policing somewhere I suppose.


<snipped for brevity>
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
True, and they do seem to save lives in the third world.
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start
again. Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids are
again dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
I have posted articles about that.
Sad isn't it?
Indeed it is. I hate to see people to suffer just because someone did
not use critical thinking.
< bob's dribble snipped>
Post by Bob Officer
Sad isn't it.
Yes bob, it is sad that you think your job is to play net police.
Who died and put you in charge anyway?
People don't have to live by your contrived rules.

Next time you try to impose your rules on others, just ask yourself the
following questions -
a) Does anybody give a flying fuck?
b) Is it really all that important?
c) Does it contribute any real value to the conversation?
d) Have you said it before a few thousand times?
e) Is it rude, derogatory or condescending?
And if you can answer 'yes' to any of these questions, then zip it.


carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer
2010-08-23 12:38:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:56:39 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 09:44:15 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative,
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Post by carole
You have to remember that Rife's notes were stolen and his
laboratory trashed.
http://www.rife.org/rifeslab.html
I saw those too but were going to use them later.
http://www.rife.org/rifelab/Bubonic%20Plague.jpg
Looks like this could be duplicated easily.
However all one needs to do is look at the Wavelength of the source.
also something which surprises me is that page state UV caused an
increase in culture Growth. Odd, UV Light in high concentrations is
known to be a sterilizer. 160Khz is the middle of the Low
frenquency/Long wavelength Radio. 585meters wave length. The rest of
his hand written notes have much the same information. Seem like it
would be easy to check the findings if the Research group in canada
would allow it.
Agreed. There is a very strong tendency in "researchers" who do not
follow the scientific method to keep very quiet about negative results.
It's usually because they invest too much personal expectations and
belief into their experiments.
Surprising how many failed researcher end up with depression. I can
understand people investing a lot of energy, but to have it end up in
failure is hard, mentally.
I am getting depression just listening to the analysis of the topic.
Sorry, you can leave anytime you want no one is forcing you to read
anything.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
They also never understand that failed experiments can be of real value,
the Michelson-Morley one being the most famous example.
One that is studied in nearly every high school and college level
physics class.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Odd and I except silence becuase you falsified another one of her
claims.
She refused to look claiming they were "pharmaceutical propaganda." Even
if I credited that, I fail to see how that one and the auction site with
a Rife-built microscope could be that.
There are dozens of pro Rife Sites, usually as fronts for people
trying to sell the unlawful and dangerous Rife Beam Devices.
Yep, everything the internet cop can't do himself he reckons nobody can do.
Typical superiority complex.
Carole do you know what X-rays are? you do know that and 812a Vacuum
tube produces X-rays. That why they must be shielded. What does
unshielded X-ray tubes do to people? You do know the 812a wasn't
running in cold cathode mode but was hot? That even produces more
X-rays than the demo in the Video I found.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
I am almost tempted to cobble one up to actually see what it really
produces. I know people at the Lab have some great testing resources
and have alway given me help when asked.
No bob, it can't be done.
Its all a scam. You wouldn't want to ruin your reputation now would you?
What cobble up a Beam Ray Machine and expose it for what it is? A
Dangerous instrument in the wrong hands. In the early 30's people
didn't know the damage that could be done with X-rays to the human
body. Today The debate is all about the maximum exposure levels being
too high.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
But the refusal to see reality is strong in her.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
If he was a genius, then he was a misguided one. Even though his
devices have been duplicated, and some of the originals are still in
existence, nobody can make them do what he claimed they could do.
Seems simple and I don't see genius. good machine work and precision
dial indicators. I see one set of what appears to a phased light
splitter in one image
I'm not a specialist in that area, so I have to defer judgement. That's
why the qualifiers.
My Certification is a 40 years old in electron microscopy. Today They
use digital imaging in place of the old Photoplate technology. Much
has changed as the beam technology became more refined and image
production went digital.
My optical skills are such I have build about 15 telescopes. The
largest is 27 inch F6 used as club community scope. I did the mirror
in 25% of the time using ordinary methods and used diamond grits
based slurry. Technology from making thin sections in one field
carried over to another. Innovative but not original. However both
fields the computation of limiting factors remain the same.
Like I said, bob is a technician but not much idea about anything else.
Just playing internet cop, harrassing other people, nagging and laying down
the law.
and What have you accomplished in your life Carole? If your web page
is to opus, it doesn't look like you done nothing but copy other
people's works. There is nothing original on your web page, is there?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
He thought he had something
great to offer humanity, that would help cure illnesses and cancer.
He was wrong then. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last to
make such claims based on unworkable hypotheses.
N-Rays all over again. To bad he turned to the bottle in the face of
failure.
Agreed. It also might explain why he trashed his lab, as alcoholics have
been known to take their frustrations out by trashing inanimate objects.
I suspect reading the different accounts, it wasn't so much he
trashed his lab, but he cannibalized his two early microscopes for
parts to make his 3rd, (3a?), 4th and 5th microscopes. The
entanglement with the Rife Beam Ray machines might have been his down
fall as people started reporting the ill effects of what was being
produces. I am beginning to think he was producing X rays off the
Cathodes and the Tubes could have been unshielded. 812a could be made
to produce X rays.
Sure bob. Because you can't build one of microscopes it can't be done,
right?
They can all be duplicated to what end. Even using the phase splitter
and a pure UV light source he still couldn't see everything that was
claimed. One outside Expert reported what Rife claimed was a cell was
nothing more than Coma Aberration
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
http://www.hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q6139.html
How easy it is produce x rays?
http://youtu.be/nVIAxN37Krc
very interesting Video. I hope not too many people become inspired to
do this.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
This one concerns the sale of an original Rife
microscope built by Rife himself
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/rife/news_2010.pdf
http://users.navi.net/~rsc/scisyn.htm
"Rife No 5 was tested in 1978 while it was at the Wellcome Museum, by a
Professor of Physics from Imperial College in London. Practically the
whole instrument was dismantled. There seemed nothing particularly
remarkable about it except that it had been constructed in such a way as
to make the work of microscopy tedious and cumbersome, particularly in
respect of focussing the instrument. Using all the original optics it
was quite impossible to obtain an image, but using a light-source,
eyepiece and objective from a Reichart microscope, a very imperfect
image of leukaemic blood cells was finally obtained. The image was about
30% larger than would have been expected with the use of a x6 objective
and a x40 eyepiece, and this was no doubt due to the prismatic
arrangement in the barrel of the microscope. The resolution, However,
was extremely poor. It was concluded that it would have been impossible
to produce the known photomicrographs with this instrument and it became
clear that this explained the late Dr Gonin's complaint that he could
obtain no results. One of the original photographs labelled "virus of
cancer" was identified as a well-known artifact of optical systems known
as "coma". It is merely a photographic rendering of an anomaly produced
by defects in the optical system."
<deleted technical stuff>
That's right you can't understand the Technical stuff which might
show you that you're wrong.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Nope, her zapper uses low-level electical current. It does not
generate radiowaves.
The current was strong enough to leave electrical burns in one
recorded case. The treatment had to be extremely painful. Indeed
Electro-shock Therapy is banned in the US.
For a very good reason...
I know.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I see one manufacture went to jail for endangering the public by
exposing people to High Voltage. He made 18million from his
con-artistry.
Those con-artists need to be incarcerated, as they're dangerous to the
gullible.
The laws were made not to suppress amazing discoveries. As the video
I posted even simple radio tubes can become dangerous without proper
safeguards. Safeguarding people from dangerous technology is
important.
Get of the raw prawn.
You wouldn't know what the hell you were talking about idiot.
The Video does show I am right as does the Reference web pages,
Carole. I don't know what you are so upset, unless you are starting
to see the bits and pieces of your claims fall apart.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder if Carole will ever understand why some devices were
declared unlawful to make or sell to the public. and When they are
sold to institutions, proper safeguards have to be in place,
inspections made and procedures followed.
You're a moron bob.
If you had 1/2 a brain it would be lonely, because the other half isn't
there.
See what happens Carole as your beliefs are shown to be false? You
retort by putting people down. without evidence other than post hoc
declarations you have nothing.

BTW the Video is great evidence, isn't it?
Post by carole
As far as I can see you just can't handle anybody knowing anything you don't
know.
You think you are the expert on everything, and if you can't do it can't be
done.
No It can not be done independently it most likely can't be done.

Carole you do know how the A-Bomb works? You get enough Radioactive
Material together in one spot it become Critical Mass. Just a little
knowledge of that would enable anyone with enough Material to make a
bomb. That's what the Secret of the A-Bomb couldn't be kept a secret.
The key bit of knowledge is too easy to discover.

That is why Conspiracy Theories do not hold up for long.
Post by carole
< deleted for brevity>>
Run Carole! Run!
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It just shows that carole is too willing to accept claims which lend
support to her general paranoia - and too intellectually lazy to
actually delve into the background.
You're up yourself bob.
A legend in your own mind.
However Carole I didn't write that. you are letting your paranoia
color your response.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
This was a few minutes (30-45) of reading. then careful note making
to figure out a time line and place the different accounts into a
form one could actually account for all five (or 6 machines if you
count 3a. I almost think 3a could be #1 rebuilt)
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
"Osteoporosis is a disorder in which loss of bone strength leads to
fragility fractures. This review examines the fundamental pathogenetic
mechanisms underlying this disorder, which include: (a) failure to
achieve a skeleton of optimal strength during growth and development;
(b) excessive bone resorption resulting in loss of bone mass and
disruption of architecture; and (c) failure to replace lost bone due
to defects in bone formation. Estrogen deficiency is known to play a
critical role in the development of osteoporosis, while calcium and
vitamin D deficiencies and secondary hyperparathyroidism also
contribute. There are multiple mechanisms underlying the regulation of
bone remodeling, and these involve not only the osteoblastic and
osteoclastic cell lineages but also other marrow cells, in addition to
the interaction of systemic hormones, local cytokines, growth factors,
and transcription factors. Polymorphisms of a large number of genes
have been associated with differences in bone mass and fragility. It
is now possible to diagnose osteoporosis, assess fracture risk, and
reduce that risk with antiresorptive or other available therapies.
However, new and more effective approaches are likely to emerge from a
better understanding of the regulators of bone cell function."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16322775
Which is good news. I suspect Nature really didn't design the human
body to live much beyond the ability to reproduce and raise viable
children.
That's evolution for you, and it's true for all the other species as
well.
But it is only an assumption. One of the most common long lived
animals is the common carp. It has the ability to still reproduce
after being alive 250 or more years.
Woopie do!
The plain old common gold fish, hey?
Learn something every day.
And did you understand why that tidbit of knowledge is important. It
is an example "Evidence" that my lead-in statement might be true. The
concept is valid and introduce what might be evidence to make the
point more valid.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
That actually explains why cancers are more common now, as they're
generally middle and old age diseases. Sure, childhood cancers do happen
as well, but those are distinctly a minority.
Bit image decay in organic replication. The DNA replication decays
over time. The system isn't prefect.
No kidding?
You wouldn't be master of the bleeding obvious by any chance, would you
blob --or is it boob?
Never mind, they all fit.
So you are upset Carole that people do know more that your do. Like I
asked what have you personally done? What Skill have you learning in
the last 10 years, assuming you have been out of formal school for 10
years.
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
They are 3X-6X diluted, so depending on how much she guzzles down might
put her in risk.
I wonder if she needs to be warned? or if she would take it
seriously. I know She won't listen to people about her fungus still
growing.
More information from Placbo Bob, ie a legend in his own mind.
LOL Carole...
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Do you expect anything from Miss Fallacy?
I'm curious to see if she even tries to find one.
We will see.
Have fun waiting ...oh, you can always go around the net and do some
policing somewhere I suppose.
<snipped for brevity>
Are you out of breath yet Carole?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
True, and they do seem to save lives in the third world.
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start
again. Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids are
again dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
I have posted articles about that.
Sad isn't it?
Indeed it is. I hate to see people to suffer just because someone did
not use critical thinking.
< bob's dribble snipped>
Still more running Carole?
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Sad isn't it.
Yes bob, it is sad that you think your job is to play net police.
Who died and put you in charge anyway?
People don't have to live by your contrived rules.
They Are societies rules Carole, Not mine. People wouldn't like my
rules as they would harsh in many ways.
Post by carole
Next time you try to impose your rules on others, just ask yourself the
following questions -
a) Does anybody give a flying fuck?
Yes, they do or the rules and laws would not have been passed or
enforced.
Post by carole
b) Is it really all that important?
Yes, do not make rules unless you are willing to enforce them.
Post by carole
c) Does it contribute any real value to the conversation?
Only you think they don't
Post by carole
d) Have you said it before a few thousand times?
Have you?
Post by carole
e) Is it rude, derogatory or condescending?
Are you an insult to humanity?
Post by carole
And if you can answer 'yes' to any of these questions, then zip it.
Are you willing to follow your own advice Carole? or are you a
hypocrite?
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
carole
2010-08-24 20:26:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:56:39 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,
Post by carole
Post by Bob Officer
Surprising how many failed researcher end up with depression. I can
understand people investing a lot of energy, but to have it end up in
failure is hard, mentally.
I am getting depression just listening to the analysis of the topic.
Sorry, you can leave anytime you want no one is forcing you to read
anything.
<dribble snipped>

carole
www.conspiracee.com
Steelclaws
2010-08-23 12:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Odd and I except silence becuase you falsified another one of her
claims.
She refused to look claiming they were "pharmaceutical propaganda." Even
if I credited that, I fail to see how that one and the auction site with
a Rife-built microscope could be that.
There are dozens of pro Rife Sites, usually as fronts for people
trying to sell the unlawful and dangerous Rife Beam Devices.
I am almost tempted to cobble one up to actually see what it really
produces. I know people at the Lab have some great testing resources
and have alway given me help when asked.
Should be easy enough, and sounds like an interesting experiment. If you
do it, let me know what the test results were.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
But the refusal to see reality is strong in her.
I've noticed...
Post by Bob Officer
How easy it is produce x rays?
http://youtu.be/nVIAxN37Krc
very interesting Video. I hope not too many people become inspired to
do this.
Agreed.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
"Rife No 5 was tested in 1978 while it was at the Wellcome Museum, by a
Professor of Physics from Imperial College in London. Practically the
whole instrument was dismantled. There seemed nothing particularly
remarkable about it except that it had been constructed in such a way as
to make the work of microscopy tedious and cumbersome, particularly in
respect of focussing the instrument. Using all the original optics it
was quite impossible to obtain an image, but using a light-source,
eyepiece and objective from a Reichart microscope, a very imperfect
image of leukaemic blood cells was finally obtained. The image was about
30% larger than would have been expected with the use of a x6
objective
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
and a x40 eyepiece, and this was no doubt due to the prismatic
arrangement in the barrel of the microscope. The resolution, However,
was extremely poor. It was concluded that it would have been
impossible
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
to produce the known photomicrographs with this instrument and it became
clear that this explained the late Dr Gonin's complaint that he could
obtain no results. One of the original photographs labelled "virus of
cancer" was identified as a well-known artifact of optical systems known
as "coma". It is merely a photographic rendering of an anomaly
produced
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
by defects in the optical system."
I saw that, also.
Coma is a very common optic aberration which can produce false
artifacts. You can see it in cheap digital camera lenses as color or
contrast distortions at the edge of the lens. usually along with a
pincushion effect. Especially when the Image is overly enlarged
during devolvement of a hard print image from Film.
And without knowledge of that, and of experience in evaluating such
photos, it's easy to make the mistake Rife did.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
The current was strong enough to leave electrical burns in one
recorded case. The treatment had to be extremely painful. Indeed
Electro-shock Therapy is banned in the US.
For a very good reason...
I know.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I see one manufacture went to jail for endangering the public by
exposing people to High Voltage. He made 18million from his
con-artistry.
Those con-artists need to be incarcerated, as they're dangerous to the
gullible.
The laws were made not to suppress amazing discoveries. As the video
I posted even simple radio tubes can become dangerous without proper
safeguards. Safeguarding people from dangerous technology is
important.
I wonder if Carole will ever understand why some devices were
declared unlawful to make or sell to the public. and When they are
sold to institutions, proper safeguards have to be in place,
inspections made and procedures followed.
She won't. She'll yammer her "suppressed inventions" mantra again.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder how much Carole's playing around with Cell Salts has
effected her overall calcium levels? Especially when the second
source mentions excessive doses of Magnesium and Phosphorus can
effect how the calcium is absorbed.
They are 3X-6X diluted, so depending on how much she guzzles down might
put her in risk.
I wonder if she needs to be warned? or if she would take it
seriously. I know She won't listen to people about her fungus still
growing.
When did a True Believer ever take something that contradicts their
worldview seriously? Carole won't either.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
Amazing, I see why she gets upset at the world evidence. Every time
she mentions "Beleifs, and feelings it needs to be pointed out these
are the basis of dogma. Dogma the opposite of science.
At least she admits it's pure speculation.
Speculation without a foundation. You could speculate lots of things.
What if can be fun sometimes. Like writing a fictional story and
playing what if, this happens here how would it change the storyline
and outcome.
Yep. But she claims she's made a discovery, but isn't able to convince
anyone who knows a bit about how discoveries have to be tested and
documented. Apart from gullible fools, nobody's going to accept it on
her say-so.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
I've been talking to her about beliefs, but she does not seem to
understand she does have a belief system.
That is also she is so vehemently against the placebo effect, as
admitting that would force her to admit she has no real way of telling
the difference between placebo and her cell salts.
I tried to explain that simple before and after slides would be
evidence and what it might show. She rejected it and instead
attempted a "try it yourself" testimonial fallacy.
Like all cranks, she's big on testimony. Even after I posted to her what
is the problem with testimonies she continues to be in denial.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start
again. Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids are
again dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
I have posted articles about that.
Sad isn't it?
Indeed it is. I hate to see people to suffer just because someone did
not use critical thinking.
Fear is a dangerous tool. in the US it is mandatory for children to
"attend school" however religious fanatics force loopholes for "home
schooling" and some of the leaders of the fanatics have made a great
deal of money manufacturing books and lesson plans which teach
religious bigotry and nonsense to their children.
The greatest disservice to a child is to give them any sort of
assessment test and then allow that test to become defining them.
Even tests themselves are suspect, I feel. becuase they can be
culturally and environmentally biased.
I have seen smart children become ignorant because they failed to
apply themselves. Specifically in Carole's case she took a
personality assessment and allowed it to make her believe that she
didn't have to work at being a original thinker.
Sad isn't it.
Agreed. In carole's case, there is not a whit of originality in her
thinking. I've seen such parroting and gullible acceptance of any given
kook who she imagines supports her delusions before.

That is what happens when you don't have critical thinking skills and
combine the lack of them with delusions of grandeur.
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Bob Officer
2010-08-23 22:27:08 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 12:01:20 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative,
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
It has Rife's laboratory notes. So they were stolen, hmmm?
Odd and I except silence becuase you falsified another one of her
claims.
She refused to look claiming they were "pharmaceutical propaganda."
Even
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
if I credited that, I fail to see how that one and the auction site
with
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
a Rife-built microscope could be that.
There are dozens of pro Rife Sites, usually as fronts for people
trying to sell the unlawful and dangerous Rife Beam Devices.
I am almost tempted to cobble one up to actually see what it really
produces. I know people at the Lab have some great testing resources
and have alway given me help when asked.
Should be easy enough, and sounds like an interesting experiment. If you
do it, let me know what the test results were.
I found a 812a on the net and ordered it. I should get in in a week.
The rest of the stuff is off the shelf stuff I can pick up in the
electron junk shops in the bay area in a few weeks time. I should
have the Chassis built and coils wound by then.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
But the refusal to see reality is strong in her.
I've noticed...
Post by Bob Officer
How easy it is produce x rays?
http://youtu.be/nVIAxN37Krc
very interesting Video. I hope not too many people become inspired to
do this.
Agreed.
I already have a good counter becuase sometimes the rocks I collect
are a little on the hot side. I did notice in the Spec sheet on the
812a the Cathode is a thorium coated steel element. I do understand
why thorium is used but it surprises me when I read the spec sheet
and didn't find any shielding requirements mentioned beyond a simple
electrically grounded Faraday Cage of 1/16 inch holes mesh.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
"Rife No 5 was tested in 1978 while it was at the Wellcome Museum, by
a
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Professor of Physics from Imperial College in London. Practically the
whole instrument was dismantled. There seemed nothing particularly
remarkable about it except that it had been constructed in such a way
as
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
to make the work of microscopy tedious and cumbersome, particularly in
respect of focussing the instrument. Using all the original optics it
was quite impossible to obtain an image, but using a light-source,
eyepiece and objective from a Reichart microscope, a very imperfect
image of leukaemic blood cells was finally obtained. The image was
about
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
30% larger than would have been expected with the use of a x6
objective
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
and a x40 eyepiece, and this was no doubt due to the prismatic
arrangement in the barrel of the microscope. The resolution, However,
was extremely poor. It was concluded that it would have been
impossible
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
to produce the known photomicrographs with this instrument and it
became
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
clear that this explained the late Dr Gonin's complaint that he could
obtain no results. One of the original photographs labelled "virus of
cancer" was identified as a well-known artifact of optical systems
known
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
as "coma". It is merely a photographic rendering of an anomaly
produced
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
by defects in the optical system."
I saw that, also.
Coma is a very common optic aberration which can produce false
artifacts. You can see it in cheap digital camera lenses as color or
contrast distortions at the edge of the lens. usually along with a
pincushion effect. Especially when the Image is overly enlarged
during devolvement of a hard print image from Film.
And without knowledge of that, and of experience in evaluating such
photos, it's easy to make the mistake Rife did.
The most modern Example of this is when The Face of mars came into
full controversy. The over enlarged images did look like a face. but
then it was more than 100 times what was accepted and the image
suffered from some of the worse downgrading I seen.

A similar object in New Mexico was photographed at the same standard.
Then processed exactly the same. It also appeared to be a highly
distorted face.

The Kooks failed to understand it was a valid comparison and scream
conspiracy. in the years between several men made small fortunes
Speaking to kooks and publishing books. Not one of those people
offered to return the money when the next series of explorers sent
back still and videos of just an interesting rock formation called a
Mesa.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
The current was strong enough to leave electrical burns in one
recorded case. The treatment had to be extremely painful. Indeed
Electro-shock Therapy is banned in the US.
For a very good reason...
I know.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I see one manufacture went to jail for endangering the public by
exposing people to High Voltage. He made 18million from his
con-artistry.
Those con-artists need to be incarcerated, as they're dangerous to the
gullible.
The laws were made not to suppress amazing discoveries. As the video
I posted even simple radio tubes can become dangerous without proper
safeguards. Safeguarding people from dangerous technology is
important.
I wonder if Carole will ever understand why some devices were
declared unlawful to make or sell to the public. and When they are
sold to institutions, proper safeguards have to be in place,
inspections made and procedures followed.
She won't. She'll yammer her "suppressed inventions" mantra again.
I saw she did that, and got offended she was made to look (in her own
words) "like an idiot", by her own actions.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder how much Carole's playing around with Cell Salts has
effected her overall calcium levels? Especially when the second
source mentions excessive doses of Magnesium and Phosphorus can
effect how the calcium is absorbed.
They are 3X-6X diluted, so depending on how much she guzzles down
might put her in risk.
I wonder if she needs to be warned? or if she would take it
seriously. I know She won't listen to people about her fungus still
growing.
When did a True Believer ever take something that contradicts their
worldview seriously? Carole won't either.
No she has already started with the Counter attacks and they make her
look even more foolish.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by carole
Pure speculation is my evidence.
That is no evidence whatsoever. Do you understand what evidence is?
Amazing, I see why she gets upset at the world evidence. Every time
she mentions "Beleifs, and feelings it needs to be pointed out these
are the basis of dogma. Dogma the opposite of science.
At least she admits it's pure speculation.
Speculation without a foundation. You could speculate lots of things.
What if can be fun sometimes. Like writing a fictional story and
playing what if, this happens here how would it change the storyline
and outcome.
Yep. But she claims she's made a discovery, but isn't able to convince
anyone who knows a bit about how discoveries have to be tested and
documented. Apart from gullible fools, nobody's going to accept it on
her say-so.
I even told her one set of before and After Slides. The stains are
easy to obtain and these days just about any School lab at the
college level can make photomicrographs.

She Could then id the Fungus cells in the before image and See the
same cells are there in the after image.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
I've been talking to her about beliefs, but she does not seem to
understand she does have a belief system.
That is also she is so vehemently against the placebo effect, as
admitting that would force her to admit she has no real way of telling
the difference between placebo and her cell salts.
I tried to explain that simple before and after slides would be
evidence and what it might show. She rejected it and instead
attempted a "try it yourself" testimonial fallacy.
Like all cranks, she's big on testimony. Even after I posted to her what
is the problem with testimonies she continues to be in denial.
What more can we do?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
In all the world. Get rid of vaccination, and the epidemics start
again. Did you know that due to decreased vaccination rates, kids
are
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
again dying of measles and pertussis in the USA and UK?
I have posted articles about that.
Sad isn't it?
Indeed it is. I hate to see people to suffer just because someone did
not use critical thinking.
Fear is a dangerous tool. in the US it is mandatory for children to
"attend school" however religious fanatics force loopholes for "home
schooling" and some of the leaders of the fanatics have made a great
deal of money manufacturing books and lesson plans which teach
religious bigotry and nonsense to their children.
The greatest disservice to a child is to give them any sort of
assessment test and then allow that test to become defining them.
Even tests themselves are suspect, I feel. becuase they can be
culturally and environmentally biased.
I have seen smart children become ignorant because they failed to
apply themselves. Specifically in Carole's case she took a
personality assessment and allowed it to make her believe that she
didn't have to work at being a original thinker.
Sad isn't it.
Agreed. In carole's case, there is not a whit of originality in her
thinking. I've seen such parroting and gullible acceptance of any given
kook who she imagines supports her delusions before.
That is what happens when you don't have critical thinking skills and
combine the lack of them with delusions of grandeur.
I guess the next step is just carefully continued refuting of her
claims one by one.

Pointing out how she depends on Fallacies at every turn.

BTW is the Name you use Related to the Stainless Steel Rat?
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Steelclaws
2010-08-24 12:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
There are dozens of pro Rife Sites, usually as fronts for people
trying to sell the unlawful and dangerous Rife Beam Devices.
I am almost tempted to cobble one up to actually see what it really
produces. I know people at the Lab have some great testing resources
and have alway given me help when asked.
Should be easy enough, and sounds like an interesting experiment. If you
do it, let me know what the test results were.
I found a 812a on the net and ordered it. I should get in in a week.
The rest of the stuff is off the shelf stuff I can pick up in the
electron junk shops in the bay area in a few weeks time. I should
have the Chassis built and coils wound by then.
Good. Testing it should show how dangerous those things are when used by
people who don't have a clue.
Post by Bob Officer
I already have a good counter becuase sometimes the rocks I collect
are a little on the hot side. I did notice in the Spec sheet on the
812a the Cathode is a thorium coated steel element. I do understand
why thorium is used but it surprises me when I read the spec sheet
and didn't find any shielding requirements mentioned beyond a simple
electrically grounded Faraday Cage of 1/16 inch holes mesh.
Me not being a specialist I'm not sure how much shielding you need for
thorium.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Coma is a very common optic aberration which can produce false
artifacts. You can see it in cheap digital camera lenses as color or
contrast distortions at the edge of the lens. usually along with a
pincushion effect. Especially when the Image is overly enlarged
during devolvement of a hard print image from Film.
And without knowledge of that, and of experience in evaluating such
photos, it's easy to make the mistake Rife did.
The most modern Example of this is when The Face of mars came into
full controversy. The over enlarged images did look like a face. but
then it was more than 100 times what was accepted and the image
suffered from some of the worse downgrading I seen.
A similar object in New Mexico was photographed at the same standard.
Then processed exactly the same. It also appeared to be a highly
distorted face.
The Kooks failed to understand it was a valid comparison and scream
conspiracy. in the years between several men made small fortunes
Speaking to kooks and publishing books. Not one of those people
offered to return the money when the next series of explorers sent
back still and videos of just an interesting rock formation called a
Mesa.
Yep. I've sometimes debated kooks on the resolution issue, and as usual
get nowhere. Some people just want to believe, no matter how
conclusively they're being shown they're wrong.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder if Carole will ever understand why some devices were
declared unlawful to make or sell to the public. and When they are
sold to institutions, proper safeguards have to be in place,
inspections made and procedures followed.
She won't. She'll yammer her "suppressed inventions" mantra again.
I saw she did that, and got offended she was made to look (in her own
words) "like an idiot", by her own actions.
Carole is amusing, especially when she posts sites with claims that
completely contradict each other and imagines they somehow back her
claims up. She does not even understand why two contradictory claims
cannot be both right.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder if she needs to be warned? or if she would take it
seriously. I know She won't listen to people about her fungus still
growing.
When did a True Believer ever take something that contradicts their
worldview seriously? Carole won't either.
No she has already started with the Counter attacks and they make her
look even more foolish.
She tries to use valid criticism that's been posted about her claims and
applies it where it cannot be applied. That's pretty good evidence about
her being either of subnormal intelligence or of having no reading
comprehension whatsoever - could actually be both.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Yep. But she claims she's made a discovery, but isn't able to convince
anyone who knows a bit about how discoveries have to be tested and
documented. Apart from gullible fools, nobody's going to accept it on
her say-so.
I even told her one set of before and After Slides. The stains are
easy to obtain and these days just about any School lab at the
college level can make photomicrographs.
She Could then id the Fungus cells in the before image and See the
same cells are there in the after image.
She won't do that. I've tried to get out of her what she thinks is
causing the actual fungus infection as in whether she believes it's
autogenerated or an external infection, but no such luck.

I guess she's afraid of checking what kind of fungus it actually is as
if it is always the same one it would disprove her claim that correcting
mineral deficiency can cause immune system to extend to fungi - if that
is what she thinks. Not sure, as her thinking is so muddled it's hard to
figure out what she actually believes.
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
I've been talking to her about beliefs, but she does not seem to
understand she does have a belief system.
That is also she is so vehemently against the placebo effect, as
admitting that would force her to admit she has no real way of telling
the difference between placebo and her cell salts.
I tried to explain that simple before and after slides would be
evidence and what it might show. She rejected it and instead
attempted a "try it yourself" testimonial fallacy.
Like all cranks, she's big on testimony. Even after I posted to her what
is the problem with testimonies she continues to be in denial.
What more can we do?
I'm afraid there's more nothing that can be done. "Against stupidity the
gods themselves contend in vain."
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Agreed. In carole's case, there is not a whit of originality in her
thinking. I've seen such parroting and gullible acceptance of any given
kook who she imagines supports her delusions before.
That is what happens when you don't have critical thinking skills and
combine the lack of them with delusions of grandeur.
I guess the next step is just carefully continued refuting of her
claims one by one.
Pointing out how she depends on Fallacies at every turn.
That's easy enough, as she's addicted to both unproved claims and
fallacious argument.
Post by Bob Officer
BTW is the Name you use Related to the Stainless Steel Rat?
Nope, it's a joky reference to my habit of cracking open walnuts with my
bare hands. ;-)
--
Medicine is the only profession that labours incessantly to destroy the
reason for its own existence. -James Bryce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Bob Officer
2010-08-25 03:25:55 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:50:13 +0000 (UTC), in misc.health.alternative,
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
There are dozens of pro Rife Sites, usually as fronts for people
trying to sell the unlawful and dangerous Rife Beam Devices.
I am almost tempted to cobble one up to actually see what it really
produces. I know people at the Lab have some great testing resources
and have alway given me help when asked.
Should be easy enough, and sounds like an interesting experiment. If
you
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
do it, let me know what the test results were.
I found a 812a on the net and ordered it. I should get in in a week.
The rest of the stuff is off the shelf stuff I can pick up in the
electron junk shops in the bay area in a few weeks time. I should
have the Chassis built and coils wound by then.
Good. Testing it should show how dangerous those things are when used by
people who don't have a clue.
Email today said the guy Shipped 2 dead tubes (the filaments were
burnt), and one tube in new condition but I can still run them in
cold cathode mode, the like new tube should be very hot in it will
produce x-rays.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I already have a good counter becuase sometimes the rocks I collect
are a little on the hot side. I did notice in the Spec sheet on the
812a the Cathode is a thorium coated steel element. I do understand
why thorium is used but it surprises me when I read the spec sheet
and didn't find any shielding requirements mentioned beyond a simple
electrically grounded Faraday Cage of 1/16 inch holes mesh.
Me not being a specialist I'm not sure how much shielding you need for
thorium.
Not much unless it has been refined to remove some of the lower grade
isotopes.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Coma is a very common optic aberration which can produce false
artifacts. You can see it in cheap digital camera lenses as color or
contrast distortions at the edge of the lens. usually along with a
pincushion effect. Especially when the Image is overly enlarged
during devolvement of a hard print image from Film.
And without knowledge of that, and of experience in evaluating such
photos, it's easy to make the mistake Rife did.
The most modern Example of this is when The Face of mars came into
full controversy. The over enlarged images did look like a face. but
then it was more than 100 times what was accepted and the image
suffered from some of the worse downgrading I seen.
A similar object in New Mexico was photographed at the same standard.
Then processed exactly the same. It also appeared to be a highly
distorted face.
The Kooks failed to understand it was a valid comparison and scream
conspiracy. in the years between several men made small fortunes
Speaking to kooks and publishing books. Not one of those people
offered to return the money when the next series of explorers sent
back still and videos of just an interesting rock formation called a
Mesa.
Yep. I've sometimes debated kooks on the resolution issue, and as usual
get nowhere. Some people just want to believe, no matter how
conclusively they're being shown they're wrong.
I seen it over and over again for almost 25 years.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder if Carole will ever understand why some devices were
declared unlawful to make or sell to the public. and When they are
sold to institutions, proper safeguards have to be in place,
inspections made and procedures followed.
She won't. She'll yammer her "suppressed inventions" mantra again.
I saw she did that, and got offended she was made to look (in her own
words) "like an idiot", by her own actions.
Carole is amusing, especially when she posts sites with claims that
completely contradict each other and imagines they somehow back her
claims up. She does not even understand why two contradictory claims
cannot be both right.
Or why people tend to ignore sites which make claims without
references. Post hoc is such a ugly word to a kook.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
I wonder if she needs to be warned? or if she would take it
seriously. I know She won't listen to people about her fungus still
growing.
When did a True Believer ever take something that contradicts their
worldview seriously? Carole won't either.
No she has already started with the Counter attacks and they make her
look even more foolish.
She tries to use valid criticism that's been posted about her claims and
applies it where it cannot be applied. That's pretty good evidence about
her being either of subnormal intelligence or of having no reading
comprehension whatsoever - could actually be both.
Can I vote for both?
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Yep. But she claims she's made a discovery, but isn't able to convince
anyone who knows a bit about how discoveries have to be tested and
documented. Apart from gullible fools, nobody's going to accept it on
her say-so.
I even told her one set of before and After Slides. The stains are
easy to obtain and these days just about any School lab at the
college level can make photomicrographs.
She Could then id the Fungus cells in the before image and See the
same cells are there in the after image.
She won't do that. I've tried to get out of her what she thinks is
causing the actual fungus infection as in whether she believes it's
autogenerated or an external infection, but no such luck.
and she will avoid commitment. I notice today she is throwing out red
herring left and right. I guess tomorrow she will try moving goal
posts.
Post by Steelclaws
I guess she's afraid of checking what kind of fungus it actually is as
if it is always the same one it would disprove her claim that correcting
mineral deficiency can cause immune system to extend to fungi - if that
is what she thinks. Not sure, as her thinking is so muddled it's hard to
figure out what she actually believes.
For her Beleifs and Thinking are the same things.
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
I've been talking to her about beliefs, but she does not seem to
understand she does have a belief system.
That is also she is so vehemently against the placebo effect, as
admitting that would force her to admit she has no real way of
telling
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
Post by Bob Officer
Post by Steelclaws
the difference between placebo and her cell salts.
I tried to explain that simple before and after slides would be
evidence and what it might show. She rejected it and instead
attempted a "try it yourself" testimonial fallacy.
Like all cranks, she's big on testimony. Even after I posted to her
what
Post by Bob Officer