I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!
I am not the one on trial here.
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures. Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.
Ask big pharma why there is so much chronic ill health in the
community. They won't answer because they LIKE IT THAT WAY - Corporate
medicine is in business to make money, the more the better.
The only reason I am here in mha is due to the fact that modern
medicine isn't working in the best interests of the patient. Modern
medicine has been misrepresenting the facts about the nature of
disease in order to promote drug-based medicine.
I use nutritional remedies rather than pharmaceutical drugs - oh yes,
there are nutritional solutions for probably every disease including
certain parasite infestations including lice, bacterial and fungi
infections. But this little bit of information is a bit hard to come
by since the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) and FDA have been
infiltrated by pharmaceutical dupes who want to eliminate any
competition for drug-based medicine.
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

Deluded Imbeciles Identifying Themselves Alert!

Carole is a lying, fraud. Beyond being stupid, Carole is a health fraud. There is NOTHING worst in my book.

Fred

2014-05-25 12:51:58 UTC

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

OH YES YOU DO, sweetheart!

You're the one propagating unproven remedies and disinformation about
health that can be very dangerous.

You don't get a free pass to post your nonsense.

Anything you post here is up for challenge.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You are deservedly on trial.
And your own words have put you there.

You abused your children while you treated them for head lice with
unproven remedies that you should have know would not work.

You have put your own health at risk with your nonsense remedies,
thereby driving up the cost of health care for everyone else in Oz.

You promote those remedies to others as if they work. Fact is, they do
not work. They are dangerous, and you have yet to prove otherwise.

Add that you abuse alcohol by binge drinking, putting your own health as
well as the safety of others at risk.

<snip the usual nonsense>
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Fred

2014-05-25 13:20:59 UTC

On 5/25/2014 3:57 AM, carole-attempting-to-avoid-justice wrote:

<snip the usual nonsense>

Where are your kids now, carole?
Are they productive members of society?
Or did your abuse cripple and maim them?
Is that why you fled NSW for Victoria?
--
From: Mark Probert <***@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: All the world's problems caused by men ...not women.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:27:24 -0700 (PDT)

They say that men have bigger brains than women -- the only problem
is they think about sex and sport 75% of the time.

Carole, you can stop that. Just put your picture on your website.
It would be the equivalent of a cold shower at absolute zero.

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

From: Martin <***@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: All the world's problems caused by men ...not women.
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:40:25 +0200

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:01:50 -0700 (PDT), carole

Did I forget most criminals are men.
Generally, men dominate the world through brute force,
bullshit and bluff.

[You’re] just upset that because you have a problem with
personal hygiene (witness your eternal problems with body
odour and athletes foot) [and] you can't get a man.

From: Martin <***@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: The truth about Quack Barrett, and other news
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2010 09:36:06 +0200

Did anybody ever tell him that sodium fluoride was a poison
and that people have a right not to have their water medicated?

Did anybody ever tell you that the reason they found out that
fluoride works against tooth decay was because it naturally
(read that Carole: naturally!) occured in the water of a town
and people there had less cavities then the rest of the
country, without any detrimental effects whatsoever on
the population.

Fluoride is a 100% natural remedy Carole. That it's poisonous
is probably a lie by Big Pharma (and/or Big Dental) because
they can not make any money on natural remedies.

From: Peter Bowditch <***@ratbags.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: The truth about Quack Barrett, and other news
Organization: The RatbagsDotCom Empire
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2010 14:03:09 +1000

But why does jan think its the same martin other
than the same firstname?

Probably for the same reason that she accused Cathy B of being
Rosalind Dalefield because they are both women with children
who at some time lived in Australia.

Probably for the same reason that at various times she accused
Cathy B of being me, my wife and my daughter, apparently
because we all live in Australia.

Probably for the same reason that she accuses Mark Probert
of being a disbarred lawyer, which is that she read it on
a web site of someone who also claimed that Mark was his
own dead uncle.

Probably for the same reason that she thinks that all the
people who set up their newsreader program options to show
"***@." as the originating email address are all the same
person.

Probably because she really believes that there is only one
person in the world named Martin.

Probably because she is an uneducatable idiot.

Probably all of the above.

ï¿½

2014-05-25 13:31:25 UTC

george152

2014-05-25 20:20:13 UTC

Post by Fred
<snip the usual nonsense>
Where are your kids now, carole?

In care.

Kaye

2014-05-25 14:59:47 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Kaye

2014-05-25 15:16:32 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

--
Kaye
Homeopathy: Imaginary medicine for imaginary ills.

carole

2014-05-26 00:03:25 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

Biochemic Handbook at
http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8

The pharmaceutical fraud
http://www.nuremberg-tribunal.org/fraud/index.html

History of the Pharmaceutical Drug Business - the drug trust
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_industryweapons13.htm

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 01:12:55 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.

You need to have some proof. You don't have any proof.

Post by carole
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

No the onus is all yours. And if this were a court case 100% of the
burden of proof is yours. You have made what appears to be several
claims and statements which could be construed as civil torts even in
your court system. Your continued claims about "black slave" are
criminal actions in your own country.

I do believe you need to really consider what the fines and court
cost would be if just one person brought charges against you. IF your
TGA brought charges, you would need to prove that black salve works
which you can't do because it doesn't work as claimed.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Kaye

2014-05-26 04:58:33 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 18:12:55 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.

You need to have some proof. You don't have any proof.

Post by carole
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

I think you mean black salve, Bob. Nasty, disfiguring stuff.

Post by Bob Officer
I do believe you need to really consider what the fines and court
cost would be if just one person brought charges against you. IF your
TGA brought charges, you would need to prove that black salve works
which you can't do because it doesn't work as claimed.

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 05:30:53 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 21:58:33 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 18:12:55 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.

You need to have some proof. You don't have any proof.

Post by carole
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

I think you mean black salve, Bob. Nasty, disfiguring stuff.

Fat fingered that one, eh?

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Ernie

2014-05-26 07:10:23 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.

You need to have some proof. You don't have any proof.

Post by carole
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

No the onus is all yours. And if this were a court case 100% of the
burden of proof is yours. You have made what appears to be several
claims and statements which could be construed as civil torts even in
your court system. Your continued claims about "black slave" are
criminal actions in your own country.
I do believe you need to really consider what the fines and court
cost would be if just one person brought charges against you. IF your
TGA brought charges, you would need to prove that black salve works
which you can't do because it doesn't work as claimed.

I concur. Carole has the burden of producing some minimum amount of
proof or evidence in support of her claims, appropriate for constructive
discussion in this ng. Most often she produces no evidence, but simply
makes unsupported statements. In that sense, she fails as an
interlocutor here.
--
From: Mark Probert <***@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: All the world's problems caused by men ...not women.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:27:24 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Bob Officer
They say that men have bigger brains than women -- the only problem
is they think about sex and sport 75% of the time.

Post by Bob Officer
Did I forget most criminals are men.
Generally, men dominate the world through brute force,
bullshit and bluff.

Post by Bob Officer
Did anybody ever tell him that sodium fluoride was a poison
and that people have a right not to have their water medicated?

Post by Bob Officer
But why does jan think its the same martin other
than the same firstname?

2014-05-26 16:59:18 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.

You need to have some proof. You don't have any proof.

Post by carole
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

No the onus is all yours. And if this were a court case 100% of the
burden of proof is yours. You have made what appears to be several
claims and statements which could be construed as civil torts even in
your court system. Your continued claims about "black slave" are
criminal actions in your own country.
I do believe you need to really consider what the fines and court
cost would be if just one person brought charges against you. IF your
TGA brought charges, you would need to prove that black salve works
which you can't do because it doesn't work as claimed.

I imagine Carole has "always" been called a liar because she never did learn
or understand that the words "Put Up or Shut Up" means that SHE has to prove
that she is telling the truth because I/we do not believe her. Forget about
Carole understanding that the "Burden of Proof" belongs to her, the accuser,
to prove her claims and accusations are not lies. She does not understand
that her refusal or inability to supply that requested evidence proves to
us that she is lying.
--
Lu

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 20:09:11 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 12:59:18 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.

You need to have some proof. You don't have any proof.

Post by carole
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

No the onus is all yours. And if this were a court case 100% of the
burden of proof is yours. You have made what appears to be several
claims and statements which could be construed as civil torts even in
your court system. Your continued claims about "black slave" are
criminal actions in your own country.
I do believe you need to really consider what the fines and court
cost would be if just one person brought charges against you. IF your
TGA brought charges, you would need to prove that black salve works
which you can't do because it doesn't work as claimed.

I was in the sixth year of grammar school. We were working on public
speaking of different types. Our class covered the standard "Debate".
And the different techniques one could employ. (that's when I was 1st
exposed to the concept of logical fallacies, facts and how to check
them, and use of those 4x5 index cards ). "Put up or shut up" was
the general idea. When one started to make statements, one must be
prepared to be challenged. As we progressed thought school the idea
of challenging statements grew and often History and English became
very interesting classes. I took public speaking as an elective
class. The idea of even challenging and questioning of "facts" and
conclusions presented in the books became standard stuff. Our "End of
Term" essays/papers were always a challenge for the instructor to
grade as he spent time checking our facts and citations.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

2014-05-27 00:45:37 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 26 May 2014 12:59:18 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.

You need to have some proof. You don't have any proof.

Post by carole
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

No the onus is all yours. And if this were a court case 100% of the
burden of proof is yours. You have made what appears to be several
claims and statements which could be construed as civil torts even in
your court system. Your continued claims about "black slave" are
criminal actions in your own country.
I do believe you need to really consider what the fines and court
cost would be if just one person brought charges against you. IF your
TGA brought charges, you would need to prove that black salve works
which you can't do because it doesn't work as claimed.

Lying and stealing were never

Lying and stealing, liars and thieves were never a part of my life so it was
a shock when I first heard the expression "Put up or shut up" because as is
normal, I didn't believe other children lied or stole things because I
didn't. I think I first heard the expression "Put up or shut up" in 1st
grade on the play ground. An expression that always made me a bit cautious
about what I said because I might have to be able to prove I was not lying.
That was a challenge everyone faced.

Challenging authority or the teacher in school was never a problem and done
all the time by the children. Those challenges were always interesting, and
great lessons on thinking for ourselves.

I was shy and scared stiff to ever speak in front of the class so never
raised my hand.

--
Lu

Kaye

2014-05-26 04:32:48 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:03:25 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

I have explained my claims, I don't need to go overboard with proof as
you say.
The onus is on big pharma as I have explained in my "whine".

Well. since none of us posting here are big pharma we don't have to.
But also, we don't have to buy into your scheme since you don't want
to have to prove they work. Simple as that. You want people to
believe you, show us proof. Otherwise you are just shouting into the
wind and we aren't listening. So what we have is a stalemate, and you
don't have any converts which is what you really want, isn't it?
Kaye

Enquiring minds want to know

2014-05-26 00:29:18 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

Big pharma needs to do all the explaining.

The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

PHARMAMYTHS AND REALITIES
Institutional Corruption and the Myth of Safe, Effective Drugs
Explains how the FDA has become institutionally corrupt so that 90
percent of new approvals provide few or no advantages, and drugs are
the 4th leading cause of death.

"MARKET SPIRAL PRICING OF CANCER DRUGS"
Companies are spiraling up high prices, not because of costs or better
value, but because they can get away with it, only the USA.

The Myth of Safe & Effective Drugs (2013)
Review of evidence that only 1 in 10 new drugs has substantial
clinical advantages but 1 in every 5 results in serious harms.

Health Affairs review of PHARMAGEDDON
Insights in to how drug companies have been transforming illness,
diagnosis, the role of doctors, and treatment, away from clinical
pathology to risks by numbers.

Wasting money on marginally better new drugs
BMJ "Pharmaceutical R&D: What do we get for all that money?"
High prices and little added value characterize most new drugs. The
industry turns out articles on the so-called innovation crisis but we
prove there is none. Rather, a hidden business model leads to scores
of minor variations.

Data Exclusivity with no benefits
A detailed account of extending data exclusivity without credible
evidence it increases innovation. A costly protection from free-market
competition

See website for more.
Big pharma has eliminated the competition, embedded itself in
institutions where decisions are made, shelved real cures for the sake
of profits, lobbied government and eliminated competition.

Big pharma needs to do the explaining.
It is a wise person who avoids pharmaceutical drugs.

Enquiring minds
Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf

Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/

Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

Kaye

2014-05-26 04:41:21 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:29:18 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:16:32 -0700, Kaye

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

If you want to be taken seriously you do need to explain any claims
you make, and back up with some proof.

Big pharma needs to do all the explaining.
The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/
PHARMAMYTHS AND REALITIES
Institutional Corruption and the Myth of Safe, Effective Drugs
Explains how the FDA has become institutionally corrupt so that 90
percent of new approvals provide few or no advantages, and drugs are
the 4th leading cause of death.
"MARKET SPIRAL PRICING OF CANCER DRUGS"
Companies are spiraling up high prices, not because of costs or better
value, but because they can get away with it, only the USA.
The Myth of Safe & Effective Drugs (2013)
Review of evidence that only 1 in 10 new drugs has substantial
clinical advantages but 1 in every 5 results in serious harms.
Health Affairs review of PHARMAGEDDON
Insights in to how drug companies have been transforming illness,
diagnosis, the role of doctors, and treatment, away from clinical
pathology to risks by numbers.
Wasting money on marginally better new drugs
BMJ "Pharmaceutical R&D: What do we get for all that money?"
High prices and little added value characterize most new drugs. The
industry turns out articles on the so-called innovation crisis but we
prove there is none. Rather, a hidden business model leads to scores
of minor variations.
Data Exclusivity with no benefits
A detailed account of extending data exclusivity without credible
evidence it increases innovation. A costly protection from free-market
competition
See website for more.
Big pharma has eliminated the competition, embedded itself in
institutions where decisions are made, shelved real cures for the sake
of profits, lobbied government and eliminated competition.
Big pharma needs to do the explaining.
It is a wise person who avoids pharmaceutical drugs.
Enquiring minds
Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf
Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/
Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

Really now Carole we've gone over this. As much as you don't like it
there are many pharmaceutical treatments that do work. They prove
that on a daily basis. I know you don't like the cold hard facts
because they contradict you, but this is the way it is. You lose.

BTW, how is that bladder infection coming along now? Oh, for the
record I did see a nutritional cure for the head lice if you care to
try it: It involves covering your head with a nice thick coating of
mayonnaise and letting it set for an hour or two. You then wash it
out. This loosens the glue that the nits attach to the shaft of each
hair. Then you need to get a nit comb and comb each strand of hair
to remove all the nits. If you do it thoroughly you can get rid of
the lice without using the harsh lice shampoo. Just trying to help.
Your welcome....
Kaye

Martin

2014-05-25 16:47:40 UTC

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

Oh yes you do. Like why you are so hellbent on making alt med
supporters look so stupid that people will turn away from alt med. I'd
really like you to explain that because now it looks like you are a
shill for Big Pharma.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

Nobody is on trial here.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Why? It doesn't, so there is nothing to ask. If any alt med would
work, they'be the first to make money from it. There is a lot wrong
with Big Pharma (you can read about that in Ben Goldacre's book "Bad
Pharma"), but that is not it.

In fact Carole, it looks a lot like you are trying to distract from
the real evils of Big Pharma by hammering on the fake problems. I
think that's what they call DDT in conspiracyland, right?

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Are you ever around real people Carole? How come you have not noticed
that since 1970, cancer has gone from a subject that people hardly
dared to bring up to a subject that elicit's only the question: "And,
how long does the doctor think your treatment is going to last?" in
most cases?

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why there is so much chronic ill health in the
community.

That would be because Big Pharma is keeping us alive much longer than
in the past, and many illnesses that used to be deadly like, oh, I
don't know, HIV, are now chronic in stead of deadly. I'd call being
alive in stead of being dead an improvement but apparently, you would
rather see people dead. What a nice person you are Carole. Really.

Post by carole
They won't answer because they LIKE IT THAT WAY - Corporate
medicine is in business to make money, the more the better.
The only reason I am here in mha is due to the fact that modern
medicine isn't working in the best interests of the patient.

No, you are here because Big Pharma is paying to make alt med look
stupid. You are part of a DDT campaign, orchestrated by Big Pharma.

Post by carole
Modern medicine has been misrepresenting the facts about the nature of
disease in order to promote drug-based medicine.
I use nutritional remedies rather than pharmaceutical drugs - oh yes,
there are nutritional solutions for probably every disease including
certain parasite infestations including lice, bacterial and fungi
infections. But this little bit of information is a bit hard to come
by since the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) and FDA have been
infiltrated by pharmaceutical dupes who want to eliminate any
competition for drug-based medicine.

Carole, that information is easy to come by. I've got a bookshelf full
of books about the wonders of alt med. In fact, I got a lot more of
those than I have about real medicine, because they are much easier to
get. Bookstores have loads and loads of those books on the shelf,
medical text not so much, if any at all. Again, reality is the
opposite of what you claim it is.

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

No Carole, you are stupid, because you think we would not see that you
are a pharmashill.

Ernie

2014-05-25 23:15:52 UTC

On 5/25/2014 12:47 PM, Martin wrote:

<snip>

Post by Martin
No, you are here because Big Pharma is paying to make alt med look
stupid. You are part of a DDT campaign, orchestrated by Big Pharma.
No Carole, you are stupid, because you think we would not see that you
are a pharmashill.

I wonder if that will get under her skin.

--
"Heavenly Homes" & "Ships In The Night"
Be Bop Deluxe
Sunburst Finish (1976)

Ernie

2014-05-26 00:34:54 UTC

Post by Martin

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

Nobody is on trial here.

More than one person here has suspected that carole abused her children
by imposing a fast on them in looking for an alternative remedy for hair
lice. Carole's own words have raised that suspicion.

IF that doesn't put her continued propagation of misinformation
concerning health-related issues on trial, then I don't know what does.

--

Bob Casanova

2014-05-25 17:40:11 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, the following appeared

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

Not in inappropriate newsgroups, you don't.

[followups set appropriately]

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Bob Officer

2014-05-25 18:13:45 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!
I am not the one on trial here.

Why not you place everyone else on trial no matter where you go. it
is a personality disorder most likely seek help.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures. Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

There is no suppression, carole if there was suppression you at
illiterate as you are would not know about it.

Carole what used to kill people at age 30 now doesn't bother them any
more. Most people with you so called chronic conditions would have
died before age 10. Stop and think before you swallow the swill you
have been tasting.

In 1800 the average age at death in the US was about 28
The diseases which killed like tetanus are controllable through
vaccines. Whooping cough, measles and a host of other deadly
childhood disease are no longer a bother because of vaccines. Even
illnesses like appendix infections no long kill people. The average
age of death in the US moved higher and higher and now exceeds age
75. People now on the average live 125% longer, and that figure is
moving higher and higher every year.

Lastly your idiotic socialist leanings are showing again.

All business must make money or they simply do not stay in business.

One of the biggest Returns On Investment/Cost Recovery is the
supplement industry. One of the few which have a higher ROI than the
supplement business is the companies which manufacture Homeopathic
Remedies, where a dollar worth of substance is sold for over 100,000
dollars.

This has been explained to you before, and somehow you still believe
the supplement and homeopathic businesses to not make a profit. They
make a giant profit, while enjoying no legal need to test their
products for safety or efficacy.

Post by carole
The only reason I am here in mha is due to the fact that modern
medicine isn't working in the best interests of the patient. Modern
medicine has been misrepresenting the facts about the nature of
disease in order to promote drug-based medicine.

That's the real problem, isn't it. You make all these rather bad
claims and sadly most of them are not true or are misrepresented
truths. What is the problem? when your are challenged you either
simply repeat them, fall back on common fallacies, change the
subject, or attack the challenger sometimes you do all of the above.
then oddly, you wonder why you "end up being made an idiot out of
...".

The major problem is you do not understand what you read. You have
admitted not reading what you call complex or technical things. You
do not have the needed background in Chemistry, biology and math to
understand most of the subject you post about.

Ignorance is curable. You have been given links to simple
explanations and online classes which would allow you to make up your
apparent educational deficiencies. But you refused, and called the
knowledge dumbed-down without looking at it.

Post by carole
I use nutritional remedies rather than pharmaceutical drugs - oh yes,

No you use massive doses of paracelsian chemicals, well beyond what
is considered "nutritional". The amounts which you use, Sodium bicarb
and cream of tarter are leavening agents with no nutritional value.

Indeed one of the ingredients has a warning label. Or have you ever
looked at the label warning about the over use/abuse of sodium
bicarb? Links have even been posted to the box's graphic label
showing the warning about over use/abuse.

Post by carole
there are nutritional solutions for probably every disease including

"Probably"?

The only nutritional solutions for a deficency condition is to alter
the diet so enough of the proper nutritional element are available in
the diet.

Post by carole
certain parasite infestations including lice, bacterial and fungi
infections.

Actually you are wrong and have been shown to wrong. The latest spew
from you keyboard had all sort of ideas which have been shown to be
wrong through the simple use of a microscope.

Post by carole
But this little bit of information is a bit hard to come
by since the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) and FDA have been
infiltrated by pharmaceutical dupes who want to eliminate any
competition for drug-based medicine.

Actually your Legislature set the limits. The need for safety and
regulation was shown by your TGA which the poor manufacturing and
safety processes which force one of the leading supplement companies
to by back everything that they had made. In Addition they were left
completely broke and force to sell all the equipment to pay the
damages to the people harmed by their greed.

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

No manufacturing process or company should be given a pass on safety
and efficacy testing, carole. Why do you believe Homeopathic and
nostrum remedies' manufacturers and herb supplement providers should
not be required to test their products?

--
Bob Officer

My observation:
Hubbard's Law States:
When you don't have facts or evidence to back-up or support your
claims, Then try to cite a fictional character or a fictional
story as evidence that your dogmatic belief is true.

carole

2014-05-26 00:16:10 UTC

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!
I am not the one on trial here.

Why not you place everyone else on trial no matter where you go. it
is a personality disorder most likely seek help.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures. Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

There is no suppression, carole if there was suppression you at
illiterate as you are would not know about it.

There is suppression dolt.
All the time there is mainstream attempts to belittle and talk down
alterntive remedies.

You forget dolt, to factor in unsanitary lving conditions, long
working hours and malnutrition.

Yes, people are living longer but how much of that is due to
pharmaceutical products?
Medical intervention for diseases that kill people is important but I
don't consider long-term use of pharmaceutical drugs as life saving.

< deleted the rest of the sanctimonious rant >

Good health should not be under corporate control.
This makes the health system phony in that it is designed for profit
over health.
It there is competition between corporate profits and health of the
people, the profits win and real cures are shelved in favour of
long-term management of disease.

This is why bob officer is STUPID because he doesn't understand the
basics of who should be in control.

Good health doesn't depend on having access to "new innovative" drugs.
If a person's health has become so poor they must depend on drugs they
need a good detox.

--
carole
www.cellsalts.net

Biochemic Handbook at
http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8

The pharmaceutical fraud
http://www.nuremberg-tribunal.org/fraud/index.html

History of the Pharmaceutical Drug Business - the drug trust
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_industryweapons13.htm

george152

2014-05-26 00:43:38 UTC

Post by carole
There is suppression dolt.
All the time there is mainstream attempts to belittle and talk down
alterntive remedies.

It doesn't work. That's why its an 'alternative'

Fred

2014-05-26 00:48:47 UTC

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING
I am not the one on trial here.

Not much.

Post by Kaye
Why not you place everyone else on trial no matter where you go.
it is a personality disorder most likely seek help.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures. Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually
nowhere since the war on cancer began in 1970.

There is no suppression, carole if there was suppression you at
illiterate as you are would not know about it.

There is suppression dolt.

Oy vey . . .

Post by carole
All the time there is mainstream attempts to belittle and talk down
alterntive remedies.

Baking soda did not cure her foot fungus.

Fasting did not get rid of the hair lice that infested her children.
Neither did calcium tablets.

You forget dolt, to factor in unsanitary lving conditions, long
working hours and malnutrition.

I hope she doesn't think it was homeopathy that was the originator of
better sanitation.

Post by carole
Yes, people are living longer but how much of that is due to
pharmaceutical products?

Oy vey . . .

Post by carole
Medical intervention for diseases that kill people is important but
I don't consider long-term use of pharmaceutical drugs as life
saving.

Oy vey . . .

Post by carole
Good health should not be under corporate control.

Under control of the Healthy Living Czarina Carole Hubbard of Oz?

Post by carole
This makes the health system phony in that it is designed for profit
over health.

Oy vey . . .

Post by carole
It there is competition between corporate profits and health of the
people, the profits win and real cures are shelved in favour of
long-term management of disease.

Oy vey . . .

Post by carole
This is why bob officer is STUPID because he doesn't understand the
basics of who should be in control.

Oh no, it's Bob Officer's fault (again) . . .

Post by carole
Good health doesn't depend on having access to "new innovative"
drugs. If a person's health has become so poor they must depend on
drugs they need a good detox.

Oy vey, here comes the colon bomb . . .
--
From: Mark Probert <***@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: All the world's problems caused by men ...not women.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:27:24 -0700 (PDT)

Post by carole
They say that men have bigger brains than women -- the only problem
is they think about sex and sport 75% of the time.

Post by carole
Did I forget most criminals are men. Generally, men dominate the
world through brute force, bullshit and bluff.

Post by carole
Did anybody ever tell him that sodium fluoride was a poison and that
people have a right not to have their water medicated?

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 01:36:49 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:16:10 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!
I am not the one on trial here.

Why not you place everyone else on trial no matter where you go. it
is a personality disorder most likely seek help.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures. Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

There is no suppression, carole if there was suppression you at
illiterate as you are would not know about it.

There is suppression dolt.

No there isn't, if you know about these so called "suppressed" cures,
they are not really "suppressed". IF it evident you do not understand
what the word "supressed" really means.

Post by carole
All the time there is mainstream attempts to belittle and talk down
alterntive remedies.

They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

You forget dolt, to factor in unsanitary lving conditions, long
working hours and malnutrition.

Those were factored. Whooping cough wasn't depending one any of those
factors. Polio wasn't dependant on those factors. Measles wasn't
dependant upon those factors, Tetanus wasn't dependant upon those
conditions. Those were all considered mostly Childhood disease which
left people dead. Dropping that mortality rate. Even in places which
didn't have any sanitary problems the mortality rate was poor.

Post by carole
Yes, people are living longer but how much of that is due to
pharmaceutical products?

90% of it is due to modern evidence based medicine.

Post by carole
Medical intervention for diseases that kill people is important but I
don't consider long-term use of pharmaceutical drugs as life saving.

In some case it is not only necessary but required. If a person has
Type I diabetes do you know what will happen if they stop using
insulin?

You see Carole you have a real poorly constructed fantasy build
around your personal arrogance and your willful ignorance. You though
process is riddled with fallacies and logical inconsistencies.

Post by carole
< deleted the rest of the sanctimonious rant >

Why you don't like the truth? Nothing I wrote was anything other than
what has could be backed by using your own statements.

Post by carole
Good health should not be under corporate control.

You would rather have it under state control? That is exactly the
goal of universal health care.

Post by carole
This makes the health system phony in that it is designed for profit
over health.

You expect the doctors and hospitals to operate at a loss? How to
they provide for the people that staff the hospitals? Who do the
doctors pay for food, clothing and housing. How do they provide for
their families?

You see carole you ignorantly make silly statements and end up "being
made a idiot out of ..."

Post by carole
It there is competition between corporate profits and health of the
people, the profits win and real cures are shelved in favour of
long-term management of disease.

Now carole you know that isn't true and you have Zero proof that your
is true. What you have just done was make a criminal accusation and
hove no proof, that carole, is called a civil tort and those
corporations can sue you in court.

I am not sure you mean to use the word "competition" did you?

Post by carole
This is why bob officer is STUPID because he doesn't understand the
basics of who should be in control.

Certainly not you carol, because you simply lack the necessary
knowledge to make any judgement call about anyone's health.
Especially your own health. A hearing could be held tomorrow with
enough evidence off this newsgroup alone for a declaration of Non
Compos Mentis by just about any court.

Post by carole
Good health doesn't depend on having access to "new innovative" drugs.
If a person's health has become so poor they must depend on drugs they
need a good detox.

Bingo...

There you go, that is just what it takes for such a court finding.

How would a "good detox" treat a person with Type I diabetes or an
active Tetanus Infection?

You see Carole you're an idiot and your own words are what make you
one.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Enquiring minds want to know

2014-05-26 05:01:52 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
There is no suppression, carole if there was suppression you at
illiterate as you are would not know about it.

There is suppression dolt.

No there isn't, if you know about these so called "suppressed" cures,
they are not really "suppressed". IF it evident you do not understand
what the word "supressed" really means.

Post by carole
All the time there is mainstream attempts to belittle and talk down
alterntive remedies.

They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

< useless rant snipped >

It would help if you could keep your rants a bit shorter.
We know you'll stick up for big pharma to the end.

-----------

The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

PHARMAMYTHS AND REALITIES
Institutional Corruption and the Myth of Safe, Effective Drugs
Explains how the FDA has become institutionally corrupt so that 90
percent of new approvals provide few or no advantages, and drugs are
the 4th leading cause of death.

Notice the word CORRUPTION?
The MYTHS they've built up over the years
1. Pharmaceuticals are safe and efficacious
2. There are no viable alternatives etc.

MYTHS./
You do know what the word "myth" means, don't you?

Institutional Corruption and the Myth of Safe, Effective Drugs
(247.0KB)
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf
Explains how the FDA has become institutionally corrupt so that 90
percent of new approvals provide few or no advantages, and drugs are
the 4th leading cause of death.

"Institutional corruption is a normative concept of
growing importance that embodies the systemic
dependencies and informal practices that distort
an institutions societal mission. An extensive range of
studies and lawsuits already documents strategies by
which pharmaceutical companies hide, ignore, or misrepresent evidence
about new drugs; distort the medical literature; and misrepresent
products to prescribing
physicians.
1
We focus on the consequences for patients:
millions of adverse reactions. After defining institutional
corruption, we focus on evidence that it lies behind the
epidemic of harms and the paucity of benefits.
It is our thesis that institutional corruption has
occurred at three levels. "

So corruption on 3 levels -- NOT ONE BUT 3 LEVELS OF CORRUPTION.

For god's sake get your head out of your butt.

and that's only one topic - ie corruption.

YOU'VE GOT TO BE ONE OF THE MOST STUPID PEOPLE ON USENET.

---------------------

"MARKET SPIRAL PRICING OF CANCER DRUGS"
Companies are spiraling up high prices, not because of costs or better
value, but because they can get away with it, only the USA.

The Myth of Safe & Effective Drugs (2013)
Review of evidence that only 1 in 10 new drugs has substantial
clinical advantages but 1 in every 5 results in serious harms.

Health Affairs review of PHARMAGEDDON
Insights in to how drug companies have been transforming illness,
diagnosis, the role of doctors, and treatment, away from clinical
pathology to risks by numbers.

Wasting money on marginally better new drugs
BMJ "Pharmaceutical R&D: What do we get for all that money?"
High prices and little added value characterize most new drugs. The
industry turns out articles on the so-called innovation crisis but we
prove there is none. Rather, a hidden business model leads to scores
of minor variations.

Data Exclusivity with no benefits
A detailed account of extending data exclusivity without credible
evidence it increases innovation. A costly protection from free-market
competition

Pharm R&D - Costly Myths
Recent record-high cost estimates of R&D are not only untrue but can
impede policy for global health justice

THE RISKS OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS (click)
Prescription drugs are less effective and more dangerous than patients
or physicians think

Demythologizing the High Costs of Drug Research
Cost of research per new drug is much lower than claimed

Enquiring minds want to know

Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf

Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/

Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 05:39:13 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 15:01:52 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Bob Officer
There is no suppression, carole if there was suppression you at
illiterate as you are would not know about it.

There is suppression dolt.

No there isn't, if you know about these so called "suppressed" cures,
they are not really "suppressed". IF it evident you do not understand
what the word "supressed" really means.

Post by carole
All the time there is mainstream attempts to belittle and talk down
alterntive remedies.

They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.

Why has no evidence ever been presented to back the claims. Why has
big supplement and homeopathic organization spent millions of dollars
to lobby legislative bodies not to properly regulate it? Even going
so far as to pass laws preventing basic testing for heavy metals in
supplements?

The bookshelves are filled with low cost books full of contradictory
claims of alternative medicine. All them offering advice and
treatments which have Zero proof of efficacy of safety.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

Not, as long as our legislative bodies do not level the playing field
and how them all to the same standards.

You do not really knows what "suppression" means carole. If little
old ignorant you knows it and blabs mindless about it on usenet it
isn't suppressed at all.

Suppressed means the people that know about it disappear, and so do
their families. all copies of the books are burned or destroyed. All
knowledge of it is eradicated.

No alternative medicine is not suppressed, it is however used by
con-artist and foolish people.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
< useless rant snipped >
It would help if you could keep your rants a bit shorter.
We know you'll stick up for big pharma to the end.

You are the ranter carole. You end up making un-sibstaniated claims
and end up ":being made to look like an idiot.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Fred

2014-05-26 07:29:00 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

Your charge of "suppression" of effective alternative remedies is
without merit.
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Sylvia Else

2014-05-26 08:10:45 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)

Sylvia.

Enquiring minds want to know

2014-05-26 08:27:33 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:10:45 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)
Sylvia.

You forgot to add "in my opinion" because that's all it is - your
opinion.

Enquiring minds want to know

The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf

Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/

Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

Sylvia Else

2014-05-26 08:37:55 UTC

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:10:45 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)
Sylvia.

You forgot to add "in my opinion" because that's all it is - your
opinion.

Which part of what I said did you disagree with?

Or was it the ;)?

Sylvia.

Enquiring minds want to know

2014-05-26 09:50:53 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:37:55 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:10:45 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)
Sylvia.

You forgot to add "in my opinion" because that's all it is - your
opinion.

Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Enquiring minds want to know

The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf

Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/

Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

Fred

2014-05-26 10:02:56 UTC

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:37:55 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:10:45 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)

You forgot to add "in my opinion" because that's all it is - your
opinion.

Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.

No one "hangs around" for your nonsense.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

All unproven rubbish without merit.

By the way, have you gone to an AA meeting yet?
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

BruceS

2014-05-26 21:52:09 UTC

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:37:55 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:10:45 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)

You forgot to add "in my opinion" because that's all it is - your
opinion.

Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.

No one "hangs around" for your nonsense.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

All unproven rubbish without merit.
By the way, have you gone to an AA meeting yet?

AIUI, AA is also unproven rubbish without merit. I wouldn't want to
count on Penn & Teller as the sole source of data, but that's what I
recall best. They had an episode of Bullshit about twelve-stepping, and
it appears to be a bunch of faith-based hogwash with no sound
statistical backing. Maybe someone here knows better. Not that I need
them. I'm certainly not an alcoholic, as I don't go to meetings.

Fred

2014-05-26 23:14:27 UTC

<snip>

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Hmm . . . kindly adjust your hearing.

I'm disputing that Sylvia is a "latecomer" as carole suggests.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.

No one "hangs around" for your nonsense.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

All unproven rubbish without merit.
By the way, have you gone to an AA meeting yet?

AIUI, AA is also unproven rubbish without merit. I wouldn't want to
count on Penn & Teller as the sole source of data, but that's what I
recall best. They had an episode of Bullshit about twelve-stepping,
and it appears to be a bunch of faith-based hogwash with no sound
statistical backing. Maybe someone here knows better. Not that I
need them. I'm certainly not an alcoholic, as I don't go to
meetings.

I won't dispute AA may have a faith-based approach.

I have known alcoholics who have told me that AA is a support group that
has kept them sober for years.

They also told me that for alcoholics, the issue is sobriety. Whatever
helps them achieve that is what counts.

I never said AA will work for everyone who must maintain sobriety.

I'm not alcoholic, but I discount criticism of AA via a skit performed
by two American comedians.

The fact is that carole's statements indicate she has had difficulty
moderating her ingestion of alcoholic beverages with self-reported ill
consequences for her health.

She can deal with it any which way she wants. My concern is her
understanding that she must moderate her ingestion of alcoholic
beverages per Australian guidelines, or quit drinking altogether.

</quote>
In 2006 psychologist Rudolf H. Moos of the Department of Veterans
Affairs and Stanford University and Bernice S. Moos published results
from a 16-year study of problem drinkers who had tried to quit on their
own or who had sought help from AA, professional therapists or, in some
cases, both. Of those who attended at least 27 weeks of AA meetings
during the first year, 67 percent were abstinent at the 16-year
follow-up, compared with 34 percent of those who did not participate in
AA. Of the subjects who got therapy for the same time period, 56 percent
were abstinent versus 39 percent of those who did not see a therapist—an
indication that seeing a professional is also beneficial.
</end quote>

Does Alcoholics Anonymous Work?
Scott O. Lilienfeld and Hal Arkowitz
Scientific American
Feb 17, 2011
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-alcoholics-anonymous-work/

Participation in Treatment and Alcoholics Anonymous: A 16-Year Follow-Up
of Initially Untreated Individuals
J Clin Psychol. 2006 June; 62(6): 735–750. doi: 10.1002/jclp.20259
Rudolf H. Moos and Bernice S. Moos
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2220012/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2220012/citedby/
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

BruceS

2014-05-28 14:21:24 UTC

Post by Ernie
<snip>

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Hmm . . . kindly adjust your hearing.
I'm disputing that Sylvia is a "latecomer" as carole suggests.

Yes, I got that. I thought I was being funny, but it appears that I was
mistaken.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.

No one "hangs around" for your nonsense.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

All unproven rubbish without merit.
By the way, have you gone to an AA meeting yet?

AIUI, AA is also unproven rubbish without merit. I wouldn't want to
count on Penn & Teller as the sole source of data, but that's what I
recall best. They had an episode of Bullshit about twelve-stepping,
and it appears to be a bunch of faith-based hogwash with no sound
statistical backing. Maybe someone here knows better. Not that I
need them. I'm certainly not an alcoholic, as I don't go to
meetings.

*magicians. I believe that's a couple steps below comedians. In any
case, that's why I qualified it. P&T have been known to play a little
fast and loose with the facts to support their position. I haven't seen
anything from a more reliable source, but I also haven't seen anything
*supporting* AA from a more reliable source. Sure, some individuals
swear by it, but then again some swear by psychics, too. The problems
is that alcoholics who go to AA appear to have no better results than
those who try to quit on their own. That's the crucial claim, that I
have yet to see any evidence to counter.

Post by Ernie
The fact is that carole's statements indicate she has had difficulty
moderating her ingestion of alcoholic beverages with self-reported ill
consequences for her health.
She can deal with it any which way she wants. My concern is her
understanding that she must moderate her ingestion of alcoholic
beverages per Australian guidelines, or quit drinking altogether.

We can only hope that all of Carole's mental difficulties are alcohol
induced. I suspect that getting her to quit drinking will merely
convert a drunk lunatic to a sober lunatic.

Post by Ernie
</quote>
In 2006 psychologist Rudolf H. Moos of the Department of Veterans
Affairs and Stanford University and Bernice S. Moos published results
from a 16-year study of problem drinkers who had tried to quit on their
own or who had sought help from AA, professional therapists or, in some
cases, both. Of those who attended at least 27 weeks of AA meetings
during the first year, 67 percent were abstinent at the 16-year
follow-up, compared with 34 percent of those who did not participate in
AA. Of the subjects who got therapy for the same time period, 56 percent
were abstinent versus 39 percent of those who did not see a therapist—an
indication that seeing a professional is also beneficial.
</end quote>

Thanks. That runs counter to what I'd heard before, though I wonder how
much the stats are skewed by the "at least 27" part. That part makes me
wonder how many quit earlier and go back to drinking. Wouldn't it be
fairer to compare those to people who tried to quit on their own and
were successful for that same period?

Post by Ernie
Does Alcoholics Anonymous Work?
Scott O. Lilienfeld and Hal Arkowitz
Scientific American
Feb 17, 2011
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-alcoholics-anonymous-work/
Participation in Treatment and Alcoholics Anonymous: A 16-Year Follow-Up
of Initially Untreated Individuals
J Clin Psychol. 2006 June; 62(6): 735–750. doi: 10.1002/jclp.20259
Rudolf H. Moos and Bernice S. Moos
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2220012/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2220012/citedby/

Thanks again. I'll take some time to read through those. Alcoholism
certainly isn't a major interest to me, but after referencing P&T's
position on AA, I owe it to myself and others to spend some time
checking it out. Most of what I'd heard before about AA was either from
AA proselytizers or those trying to discredit them.

Fred

2014-05-28 15:00:11 UTC

Post by Ernie
<snip>

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Hmm . . . kindly adjust your hearing.
I'm disputing that Sylvia is a "latecomer" as carole suggests.

Yes, I got that. I thought I was being funny, but it appears that I was
mistaken.

I can see the humor in it, but it's difficult to be completely certain
of the spirit in which someone posts at attempt at humor, without having
some length of experience reading that person's text.

Now that you've clarified it was your attempt at humor, I think it's
funny too. :-)

Of course, now we need to get Sylvia's take on it, just to be fair. ;-)

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.

No one "hangs around" for your nonsense.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

All unproven rubbish without merit.
By the way, have you gone to an AA meeting yet?

AIUI, AA is also unproven rubbish without merit. I wouldn't want to
count on Penn & Teller as the sole source of data, but that's what I
recall best. They had an episode of Bullshit about twelve-stepping,
and it appears to be a bunch of faith-based hogwash with no sound
statistical backing. Maybe someone here knows better. Not that I
need them. I'm certainly not an alcoholic, as I don't go to
meetings.

*magicians. I believe that's a couple steps below comedians. In any
case, that's why I qualified it. P&T have been known to play a
little fast and loose with the facts to support their position. I
haven't seen anything from a more reliable source, but I also haven't
seen anything *supporting* AA from a more reliable source. Sure, some
individuals swear by it, but then again some swear by psychics, too.
The problems is that alcoholics who go to AA appear to have no better
results than those who try to quit on their own. That's the crucial
claim, that I have yet to see any evidence to counter.

I'm not alcoholic, but all the alcoholics I've known found it helpful,
if not essential, to their continued sobriety. I took their word on it.

We can only hope that all of Carole's mental difficulties are
alcohol induced. I suspect that getting her to quit drinking will
merely convert a drunk lunatic to a sober lunatic.

Agreed.

Sounds like it would be, but it may not have been feasible to organize
this study that way. No single study can do it all.

If I were alcoholic, and attending AA meetings helped keep me sober,
then I'd stick with it, no matter what anyone else said about it.

If it didn't, then I'd look for some other treatment.
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Sylvia Else

2014-05-30 06:56:27 UTC

Post by Ernie
<snip>

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Hmm . . . kindly adjust your hearing.
I'm disputing that Sylvia is a "latecomer" as carole suggests.

Yes, I got that. I thought I was being funny, but it appears that I was
mistaken.

I can see the humor in it, but it's difficult to be completely certain
of the spirit in which someone posts at attempt at humor, without having
some length of experience reading that person's text.
Now that you've clarified it was your attempt at humor, I think it's
funny too. :-)
Of course, now we need to get Sylvia's take on it, just to be fair. ;-)

Er, what? Someone's being fair to me? No, wait, that's not quite what he
said. OK, so normality is restored.

As to the point at issue, for the record...

I construed Fred's "round a long time" comment as being a reference to
the time I've been an occasional contributor (?) to this group. It
didn't occur to me to construe it otherwise.

Bruce's comment I recognised as being humour.

Sylvia.

Fred

2014-05-30 10:27:57 UTC

Post by Ernie
<snip>

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Hmm . . . kindly adjust your hearing.
I'm disputing that Sylvia is a "latecomer" as carole suggests.

Yes, I got that. I thought I was being funny, but it appears that I was
mistaken.

I can see the humor in it, but it's difficult to be completely certain
of the spirit in which someone posts at attempt at humor, without having
some length of experience reading that person's text.
Now that you've clarified it was your attempt at humor, I think it's
funny too. :-)
Of course, now we need to get Sylvia's take on it, just to be fair. ;-)

Er, what? Someone's being fair to me?

Admittedly, it does appear a bit out of the ordinary.

Post by Sylvia Else
No, wait, that's not quite what he said. OK, so normality is
restored.

I would not have asked for your input without concern for being
fair to you.

Post by Sylvia Else
As to the point at issue, for the record...
I construed Fred's "round a long time" comment as being a reference
to the time I've been an occasional contributor (?) to this group. It
didn't occur to me to construe it otherwise.

And that is the way I intended it. I've seen your postings in the past.
No comment intended about your age.

Post by Sylvia Else
Bruce's comment I recognised as being humour.

I had no recollection of Bruce's sense of humor. I didn't think it too
obnoxious to question it. After all, this is usenet.
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Fred

2014-05-30 17:34:40 UTC

Post by Ernie
<snip>

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Hmm . . . kindly adjust your hearing.
I'm disputing that Sylvia is a "latecomer" as carole suggests.

Yes, I got that. I thought I was being funny, but it appears that I was
mistaken.

I can see the humor in it, but it's difficult to be completely certain
of the spirit in which someone posts at attempt at humor, without having
some length of experience reading that person's text.
Now that you've clarified it was your attempt at humor, I think it's
funny too. :-)
Of course, now we need to get Sylvia's take on it, just to be fair. ;-)

Er, what? Someone's being fair to me?

Admittedly, it does appear a bit out of the ordinary.

Post by Sylvia Else
No, wait, that's not quite what he said. OK, so normality is
restored.

I would not have asked for your input without concern for being
fair to you.

And that is the way I intended it. I've seen your postings in the past.
No comment intended about your age.

Post by Sylvia Else
Bruce's comment I recognised as being humour.

I had no recollection of Bruce's sense of humor. I didn't think it too
obnoxious to question it. After all, this is usenet.

In honor of Sylvia Else, an occasional (?) contributor to usenet, who
with all due respect, always seems to makes good sense:

Sylvia's Mother
written by Shel Silverstein
recorded by Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show (1972)
also recorded by Bobby Bare (1972)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia%27s_Mother

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/drhook/sylviasmother.html

Bonus song in honor of Sylvia Else, respectfully, of course:
Rosalie`s Good Eats Cafe
written by Shel Silverstein
Lullabys, Legends and Lies
recorded by Bobby Bare (1974)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bare
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Fred

2014-05-30 18:19:34 UTC

Post by Ernie
<snip>

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.

Hardly. Sylvia's been around for a long time.

Hmm...that sounds like an agist dig.

Hmm . . . kindly adjust your hearing.
I'm disputing that Sylvia is a "latecomer" as carole suggests.

Yes, I got that. I thought I was being funny, but it appears that I was
mistaken.

I can see the humor in it, but it's difficult to be completely certain
of the spirit in which someone posts at attempt at humor, without having
some length of experience reading that person's text.
Now that you've clarified it was your attempt at humor, I think it's
funny too. :-)
Of course, now we need to get Sylvia's take on it, just to be fair. ;-)

Er, what? Someone's being fair to me?

Admittedly, it does appear a bit out of the ordinary.

Post by Sylvia Else
No, wait, that's not quite what he said. OK, so normality is
restored.

I would not have asked for your input without concern for being
fair to you.

And that is the way I intended it. I've seen your postings in the past.
No comment intended about your age.

Post by Sylvia Else
Bruce's comment I recognised as being humour.

I had no recollection of Bruce's sense of humor. I didn't think it too
obnoxious to question it. After all, this is usenet.

In honor of Sylvia Else, an occasional (?) contributor to usenet, who
Sylvia's Mother
written by Shel Silverstein
recorded by Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show (1972)
also recorded by Bobby Bare (1972)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia%27s_Mother
http://youtu.be/moGrcQAxmp0
http://youtu.be/KfVaommgPLU
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/drhook/sylviasmother.html
Rosalie`s Good Eats Cafe
written by Shel Silverstein
Lullabys, Legends and Lies
recorded by Bobby Bare (1974)
http://youtu.be/EpgYt02g0Ug
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bare

And just one more in honor of Sylvia Else, respectfully, of course:

The Diet Song
Written by Shel Silverstein
Performed by Bobby Bare
Lullabys, Legends and Lies (1974)

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/bare-bobby/diet-song-19799.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Bare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shel_Silverstein
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 15:36:03 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 19:50:53 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:37:55 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:10:45 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)
Sylvia.

You forgot to add "in my opinion" because that's all it is - your
opinion.

Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

What's wrong carole, the cross posting not gaining you any
supporters? You made the same mistake, posting to the groups which I
was a long time resident before coming here. Trolling for support
isn't going to work in sci.skeptic. they can spot your abuse of
fallacies and misrepresentation of facts and evidence, the second you
post it.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Sylvia, meet Carole and her 19 other socks. Busy embarrassing
alternative medicine with her willful ignorance, idiocy and utter
stupidity.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Enquiring minds want to know

2014-05-27 14:38:13 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 08:36:03 -0700, Bob Officer <*.*@*.*> wrote:

.

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.

But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

I have no problem with explaining the altie view to Sylvia but it is
all there in this thread for her to read. She can jump in anywhere she
likes without me reposting my arguments.

Post by Bob Officer
Sylvia, meet Carole and her 19 other socks. Busy embarrassing
alternative medicine with her willful ignorance, idiocy and utter
stupidity.

And who is to say that bob doesn't have socks.
There have always been plenty of socks in mha, just mostly on the
allopathic side in support of big pharma and organised medicine.

Enquiring minds want to know

The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf

Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/

Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

Bob Officer

2014-05-27 22:56:50 UTC

On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
I have no problem with explaining the altie view to Sylvia but it is
all there in this thread for her to read. She can jump in anywhere she
likes without me reposting my arguments.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

Post by Bob Officer
Sylvia, meet Carole and her 19 other socks. Busy embarrassing
alternative medicine with her willful ignorance, idiocy and utter
stupidity.

They can decode the Message IDs. Most of them are competent at math
and do not believe that adding 2+2 and getting any answer other than
4 is "thinking outside the box"

--
Bob Officer
Carole Hubbard stuns the world showing her belief that 2+2 = 3 or 5 says to me
"And one day they might find a cause for your lack of cognitive ability in
putting 2+2 together and coming up with 4 instead of 3 or 5."
in Message-ID:
<f61b82a3-85de-43b2-8ca3-***@p7g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Bob Casanova

2014-05-28 16:58:46 UTC

On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.

Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Post by Bob Officer
Sylvia, meet Carole and her 19 other socks. Busy embarrassing
alternative medicine with her willful ignorance, idiocy and utter
stupidity.

They can decode the Message IDs. Most of them are competent at math
and do not believe that adding 2+2 and getting any answer other than
4 is "thinking outside the box"

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

george152

2014-05-28 20:29:00 UTC

Post by Bob Casanova
He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

And Curley.
All we have is a monosyllabic bunch of sky botherers and the many
faces/feces of a Carole

Bob Officer

2014-05-29 00:03:30 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:29:00 +1200, in misc.health.alternative,

And Curley.
All we have is a monosyllabic bunch of sky botherers and the many
faces/feces of a Carole

Even the return of stapleton would be enjoyable.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Bob Casanova

2014-05-29 16:47:35 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:29:00 +1200, the following appeared

And Curley.

The return of EGC would be positive and objective evidence
supporting some of the religious claims. The first such
evidence, in fact.

Post by george152
All we have is a monosyllabic bunch of sky botherers and the many
faces/feces of a Carole

Seems so...

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Bob Officer

2014-05-29 21:47:26 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:47:35 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:29:00 +1200, the following appeared

And Curley.

The return of EGC would be positive and objective evidence
supporting some of the religious claims. The first such
evidence, in fact.

I wonder if we would notice any different in brain function. The last
I heard he had use a application of 230 grains of lead in a conical
hollow point shape at ~800FPS to remove the upper rear portion of his
cranium and the brain mass between that point and his mouth.

And Pete Stapleton has stumbled off into a mental health facility,
hopefully.

Post by george152
All we have is a monosyllabic bunch of sky botherers and the many
faces/feces of a Carole

Seems so...

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Bob Casanova

2014-05-30 17:15:22 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 14:47:26 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:47:35 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:29:00 +1200, the following appeared

And Curley.

The return of EGC would be positive and objective evidence
supporting some of the religious claims. The first such
evidence, in fact.

I wonder if we would notice any different in brain function.

Maybe a slight, but measurable, improvement?

Post by Bob Officer
The last
I heard he had use a application of 230 grains of lead in a conical
hollow point shape at ~800FPS to remove the upper rear portion of his
cranium and the brain mass between that point and his mouth.

I knew he was no longer with us, but I didn't know any of
the details.

Post by Bob Officer
And Pete Stapleton has stumbled off into a mental health facility,
hopefully.

Post by george152
All we have is a monosyllabic bunch of sky botherers and the many
faces/feces of a Carole

Seems so...

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Bob Officer

2014-05-30 21:26:03 UTC

On Fri, 30 May 2014 10:15:22 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 14:47:26 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:47:35 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:29:00 +1200, the following appeared

And Curley.

The return of EGC would be positive and objective evidence
supporting some of the religious claims. The first such
evidence, in fact.

I wonder if we would notice any different in brain function.

Maybe a slight, but measurable, improvement?

I knew he was no longer with us, but I didn't know any of
the details.

Said conical shaped lead mass was .451 inching a diameter, until it
impacting the interior rear potion of the upper cranial cavity where
as I understand it most of the lead masses start to deform.

I wonder if the police classified it was mass suicide? All of EGC's
sock puppets ceased posting that the time. Maybe the police listed it
as a murder/suicide? All the socks died when EGC offed himself, one
could say he killed his own socks.

Post by Bob Officer
And Pete Stapleton has stumbled off into a mental health facility,
hopefully.

Post by george152
All we have is a monosyllabic bunch of sky botherers and the many
faces/feces of a Carole

Seems so...

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Bob Casanova

2014-05-31 16:54:30 UTC

On Fri, 30 May 2014 14:26:03 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Fri, 30 May 2014 10:15:22 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 14:47:26 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:47:35 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 08:29:00 +1200, the following appeared

And Curley.

The return of EGC would be positive and objective evidence
supporting some of the religious claims. The first such
evidence, in fact.

I wonder if we would notice any different in brain function.

Maybe a slight, but measurable, improvement?

I knew he was no longer with us, but I didn't know any of
the details.

Said conical shaped lead mass was .451 inching a diameter, until it
impacting the interior rear potion of the upper cranial cavity where
as I understand it most of the lead masses start to deform.
I wonder if the police classified it was mass suicide? All of EGC's
sock puppets ceased posting that the time. Maybe the police listed it
as a murder/suicide? All the socks died when EGC offed himself, one
could say he killed his own socks.

;-)

Well it's an interesting variation on "shooting oneself in
the foot", something Earl was adept at.

Post by Bob Officer
And Pete Stapleton has stumbled off into a mental health facility,
hopefully.

Post by george152
All we have is a monosyllabic bunch of sky botherers and the many
faces/feces of a Carole

Seems so...

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

george152

2014-05-30 21:44:39 UTC

Post by Bob Casanova
I knew he was no longer with us, but I didn't know any of
the details.

As far as I remember EGC drank himself under the table and overshot by
six feet

Bob Casanova

2014-05-31 16:53:22 UTC

On Sat, 31 May 2014 09:44:39 +1200, the following appeared

Post by Bob Casanova
I knew he was no longer with us, but I didn't know any of
the details.

As far as I remember EGC drank himself under the table and overshot by
six feet

I'll let you sort it out with Bob O; he has a couple of
interesting conjectures regarding the mass murder of sock
puppets... ;-)

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Bob Officer

2014-05-31 17:44:25 UTC

On Sat, 31 May 2014 09:53:22 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Sat, 31 May 2014 09:44:39 +1200, the following appeared

Post by Bob Casanova
I knew he was no longer with us, but I didn't know any of
the details.

As far as I remember EGC drank himself under the table and overshot by
six feet

I'll let you sort it out with Bob O; he has a couple of
interesting conjectures regarding the mass murder of sock
puppets... ;-)

'Betty Jo' one of his known sock puppets disappeared after he died.
Someone else's remarks that several other supporting posters
disappeared about the same time.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

george152

2014-05-31 20:27:29 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
'Betty Jo' one of his known sock puppets disappeared after he died.
Someone else's remarks that several other supporting posters
disappeared about the same time.

Yup. Mary Jo and Mr Curley
According to the obit. he had a brother.
The bit I remember best is certain people going to Canada to sort him
out and the way he disappeared from view.
Including James Randi who was set to sue his arse off.
And that was about the time he expired (dead parrot sketch insert here)

Fred

2014-05-31 21:08:53 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
'Betty Jo' one of his known sock puppets disappeared after he died.
Someone else's remarks that several other supporting posters
disappeared about the same time.

Yup. Mary Jo and Mr Curley According to the obit. he had a brother.
The bit I remember best is certain people going to Canada to sort
him out and the way he disappeared from view. Including James Randi
who was set to sue his arse off. And that was about the time he
expired (dead parrot sketch insert here)

What year (more or less) did this take place?
--
From: "Carole" <***@iimetro.com.au>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: HOMEOPATHY FACTS LIST - 45 FACTS
Message-ID: <jo_el.14373$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:09:19 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.190.236.1

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:11:43 GMT, in alt.usenet.kooks, "Carole"

<snip>

Post by Bob Officer
Bob Officer is against alternative medicine.

I am against ineffective treatments and irrational risks. Unlike
Carole, I am against [products] which have not been shown to be
effective treatments and have an unknown value and unassessed risk.

You wouldn't know an ineffective treatment if it jumped up and bit
you on the dick.

george152

2014-05-31 23:10:50 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
'Betty Jo' one of his known sock puppets disappeared after he died.
Someone else's remarks that several other supporting posters
disappeared about the same time.

Yup. Mary Jo and Mr Curley According to the obit. he had a brother.
The bit I remember best is certain people going to Canada to sort
him out and the way he disappeared from view. Including James Randi
who was set to sue his arse off. And that was about the time he
expired (dead parrot sketch insert here)

What year (more or less) did this take place?

Earl died on 26 June, 1998,
You could have looked this up on Google

Fred

2014-05-31 23:17:10 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
'Betty Jo' one of his known sock puppets disappeared after he died.
Someone else's remarks that several other supporting posters
disappeared about the same time.

Yup. Mary Jo and Mr Curley According to the obit. he had a brother.
The bit I remember best is certain people going to Canada to sort
him out and the way he disappeared from view. Including James Randi
who was set to sue his arse off. And that was about the time he
expired (dead parrot sketch insert here)

What year (more or less) did this take place?

Earl died on 26 June, 1998,
You could have looked this up on Google

I doubt it. I'm still fuzzy on Earl's full name.

Add that I prefer to read it from someone who was active in the ng at
the time it happened.
--
From: "Carole" <***@iimetro.com.au>
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: HOMEOPATHY FACTS LIST - 45 FACTS
Message-ID: <jo_el.14373$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:09:19 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.190.236.1

Post by george152
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:11:43 GMT, in alt.usenet.kooks, "Carole"

<snip>

Post by Fred
Bob Officer is against alternative medicine.

I am against ineffective treatments and irrational risks. Unlike
Carole, I am against [products] which have not been shown to be
effective treatments and have an unknown value and unassessed risk.

You wouldn't know an ineffective treatment if it jumped up and bit
you on the dick.

Ernie

2014-05-31 23:27:51 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
'Betty Jo' one of his known sock puppets disappeared after he died.
Someone else's remarks that several other supporting posters
disappeared about the same time.

Yup. Mary Jo and Mr Curley According to the obit. he had a brother.
The bit I remember best is certain people going to Canada to sort
him out and the way he disappeared from view. Including James Randi
who was set to sue his arse off. And that was about the time he
expired (dead parrot sketch insert here)

What year (more or less) did this take place?

Earl died on 26 June, 1998,
You could have looked this up on Google

I doubt it. I'm still fuzzy on Earl's full name.

I take that back. His name was Earl Gordon Curley.

Now I need to find out who Mary Jo was.

Post by Fred
Add that I prefer to read it from someone who was active in the ng at
the time it happened.

--
From: "carole" <***@yahoo.com.au>
Newsgroups: alt.support.cancer,misc.health.alternative,sci.med
Subject: Re: The Efficacy of Radiotherapy By Don Benjamin
Message-ID: <c6Edo.4655$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:59:21 +1000
NNTP-Posting-Host: 124.190.236.1

<snip>

And yes, I admit to having a mind closed tighter than a fishes arse.
If I was in an accident or got poisoned somehow, I admit I would put
my health in the hands of conventional medicine.
There are you happy, I've finally admitted it -- that they're good
for something.

I hope you're all happy.

Bob Officer

2014-05-29 00:21:06 UTC

On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Post by Bob Officer
Sylvia, meet Carole and her 19 other socks. Busy embarrassing
alternative medicine with her willful ignorance, idiocy and utter
stupidity.

They can decode the Message IDs. Most of them are competent at math
and do not believe that adding 2+2 and getting any answer other than
4 is "thinking outside the box"

Bob Casanova

2014-05-29 16:53:59 UTC

On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

The name is vaguely familiar even though that's before my
time here (early '90s, and even then we were seeing more and
more religious and quasi-religious threads from the likes of
Karl "Woodpecker" Crawford and Ted Holden), but I'd
certainly welcome a return to issues that are at least
vaguely on-topic. Did Stapleton claim to be a psychic?

Post by Bob Officer
Sylvia, meet Carole and her 19 other socks. Busy embarrassing
alternative medicine with her willful ignorance, idiocy and utter
stupidity.

They can decode the Message IDs. Most of them are competent at math
and do not believe that adding 2+2 and getting any answer other than
4 is "thinking outside the box"

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Fred

2014-05-29 17:21:23 UTC

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Just curious, but why was Karl nicknamed "Woodpecker?"
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Bob Casanova

2014-05-30 17:09:52 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 13:21:23 -0400, the following appeared

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Just curious, but why was Karl nicknamed "Woodpecker?"

He tried to use the woodpecker's tongue, and the adaptation
of its skull to high-impact stress, to "prove" that
evolution didn't exist. He had several other drums which he
beat regularly, too.

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Fred

2014-05-30 17:46:22 UTC

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 13:21:23 -0400, the following appeared

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Just curious, but why was Karl nicknamed "Woodpecker?"

He tried to use the woodpecker's tongue, and the adaptation
of its skull to high-impact stress, to "prove" that
evolution didn't exist. He had several other drums which he
beat regularly, too.

Now *that* justifies a dig into the archives.
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

BruceS

2014-05-29 19:05:19 UTC

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

I'm trying to encourage Graham Cooper to rejoin Usenet. If I succeed,
there will be plenty of entertainment here. He used to crosspost to
sci.skeptic, though he apparently only read from aus.tv. For those who
are unfamiliar with him, he is not only psychic, he's also capable of
taking pictures of clouds, and when he's around, other people also take
pictures. Some association of government agencies (led by the CIA, I
believe) has satellites and helicopters watching him, reading his mind,
and forcing thoughts into his head. He's Adam of the Bible, Hercules,
the inspiration for The Truman Show (and pretty much every other movie),
and is destined to join with Eve to produce the new, improved human.
Unfortunately, Eve found his behavior creepy and threatening, so she got
a restraining order against him. He's had various run-ins with the law,
despite his supernatural powers. Apparently, the ability to read minds
and do various magic is not sufficient to tell one that threatening to
poison food is frowned upon in polite society. In one of his online
mental challenges, he offered to guess a person's vehicle identification
number (VIN). He did, in fact, guess. I'm proud to say that his
greatest success was in a mind-reading challenge with me as the subject.
Unfortunately for him, that was also pretty much his only success, and
other tests clearly demonstrated that my own magical ability is seven
times his level.

Graham, if you're reading this, you know what to do. From this thread,
you can see that your services are in great need. All these skeptics
need only see the majesty of your magic powers. You can even tell
everyone about any mistakes or misrepresentations I've made above.

george152

2014-05-29 20:42:13 UTC

Post by BruceS
Graham, if you're reading this, you know what to do. From this thread,
you can see that your services are in great need. All these skeptics
need only see the majesty of your magic powers. You can even tell
everyone about any mistakes or misrepresentations I've made above.

He's probably 'away' but the list of his 'abilities' seem to be an
accurate summary...

Fred

2014-05-29 21:29:00 UTC

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

I'm trying to encourage Graham Cooper to rejoin Usenet. If I
succeed, there will be plenty of entertainment here.

Oh man, I'm all for it, and hope you succeed. It's been so nauseating
here in mha for the longest with only carole.

Post by BruceS
He used to crosspost to sci.skeptic, though he apparently only read
from aus.tv. For those who are unfamiliar with him, he is not only
psychic, he's also capable of taking pictures of clouds, and when
he's around, other people also take pictures. Some association of
government agencies (led by the CIA, I believe) has satellites and
helicopters watching him, reading his mind, and forcing thoughts
into his head. He's Adam of the Bible, Hercules, the inspiration for
The Truman Show (and pretty much every other movie), and is destined
to join with Eve to produce the new, improved human. Unfortunately,
Eve found his behavior creepy and threatening, so she got a
restraining order against him. He's had various run-ins with the law,
despite his supernatural powers. Apparently, the ability to read
minds and do various magic is not sufficient to tell one that
threatening to poison food is frowned upon in polite society. In one
of his online mental challenges, he offered to guess a person's
vehicle identification number (VIN). He did, in fact, guess. I'm
proud to say that his greatest success was in a mind-reading
challenge with me as the subject. Unfortunately for him, that was
also pretty much his only success, and other tests clearly
demonstrated that my own magical ability is seven times his level.
Graham, if you're reading this, you know what to do. From this thread,
you can see that your services are in great need. All these skeptics
need only see the majesty of your magic powers. You can even tell
everyone about any mistakes or misrepresentations I've made above.

Whatever happened to that woman originally from New Jersey but moved to
Las Vegas? Linda Gore? She railed on pharmaceuticals.

Then there was that homeless lady in Manhatten. She'd post here from the
New York Public Library. She claimed she was brutalized by the NYCops
and Bellvue Hospital staff.
--
"You have to remember Michele I don't take any
pharmaceutical products at all except for the
occasional panadeine for the odd hangover."
- carole hubbard on 3 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://gsk.co.nz/panadeine.html

"I do binge a little here and there - so what?"
- carole hubbard on 30 Jun 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"A drink or two doesn't give one a hangover. Lose count?
Are you a drunk who tries to minimize their binge drinking?
Alcoholics often defend their drinking, Carole. Hangovers
don't happen after a drink or two. Drinking to the point
of getting a hangover is binge drinking. Occasionally
binging is binging. Understand that?"
- Michelle replying to carole on 1 Jul 2004
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/binging

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/you-alcohol/alcohol-facts/binge-drinking/

“Haven't drunk in years. It was a social thing when I was
working away from home, thought it was fun at the time,
sort of like in holiday mode. The result of being brought
up in an overly straight environment where my parents drank
1 bottle of beer between themselves at xmas every 2nd year.
Things change. I don't drink anymore because I don't like
hangovers.” – carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

”I gave up smoking using my own willpower and gave up
drinking by substituting with soft drink, which I have
now downscaled to about 1 750ml bottle a week mixed
with soda water - 1/4 lemon squash 3/4 soda water.
I had a drink at a xmas party xmas before last.
As I said, occasionally I indulge, or if I go
to visit somebody who drinks.”
– carole hubbard on 27 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I gave it [drinking] up about 5 or 6 years ago. Maybe
occasional glass of something if I go out."
- carole hubbard on 28 Apr 2014
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

“I wouldn't take pharmaceutical drugs for anything.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“I don't take drugs for anything, except the occasional
paracetamol less and less frequently.”
– carole hubbard on 30 Apr 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

“Drinking alcohol is not illegal. But apart from that,
I gave up shortly after 2006. And why shouldn't I drink,
I'm an adult ie over 21.”
– carole hubbard on 17 May 2014
Message-ID: ***@4ax.com

"I had a couple of midori and lemonade the other day -
should have stopped at one though."
- carole hubbard on 12/15/2011
Message-ID: <od5Gq.301$%***@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

http://www.midori.com.au/

http://www.drinkwise.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Effects-of-alcohol-DrinkWise.pdf

http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/_files_nhmrc/publications/attachments/ds10-alcohol.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/36E6FEE732C8DF1BCA25767200769CD8/$File/adult.pdf

http://www.alcohol.gov.au/internet/alcohol/publishing.nsf/Content/E9E12B0E00E94FD5CA25718E0081F1DC/$File/std0910.pdf

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/denial/art-20047926

http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html

http://bitsy.spinics.net/849

Bob Officer

2014-05-29 22:17:51 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 13:05:19 -0600, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

I'm trying to encourage Graham Cooper to rejoin Usenet.

Last I saw he was still posting in alt.astrology.

Post by BruceS
If I succeed,
there will be plenty of entertainment here.

And people at your door with pitchforks and torches.

That was a stint in the mental facility after he threatens and there
was evidence he attempted to put rat poison in the food supply.

Post by BruceS
Apparently, the ability to read minds
and do various magic is not sufficient to tell one that threatening to
poison food is frowned upon in polite society. In one of his online
mental challenges, he offered to guess a person's vehicle identification
number (VIN). He did, in fact, guess. I'm proud to say that his
greatest success was in a mind-reading challenge with me as the subject.
Unfortunately for him, that was also pretty much his only success, and
other tests clearly demonstrated that my own magical ability is seven
times his level.
Graham, if you're reading this, you know what to do. From this thread,
you can see that your services are in great need. All these skeptics
need only see the majesty of your magic powers. You can even tell
everyone about any mistakes or misrepresentations I've made above.

Cross posted to a group I know he used to read...
as late as 03/14 of this year.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Bob Casanova

2014-05-30 17:13:21 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 13:05:19 -0600, the following appeared

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Minor nit: He claimed to actually influence the shapes of
clouds. I'm still waiting for him to post a recognizable
picture of an AK-47.

Post by BruceS
Some association of government agencies (led by the CIA, I
believe) has satellites and helicopters watching him, reading his mind,
and forcing thoughts into his head. He's Adam of the Bible, Hercules,
the inspiration for The Truman Show (and pretty much every other movie),
and is destined to join with Eve to produce the new, improved human.
Unfortunately, Eve found his behavior creepy and threatening, so she got
a restraining order against him. He's had various run-ins with the law,
despite his supernatural powers. Apparently, the ability to read minds
and do various magic is not sufficient to tell one that threatening to
poison food is frowned upon in polite society. In one of his online
mental challenges, he offered to guess a person's vehicle identification
number (VIN). He did, in fact, guess. I'm proud to say that his
greatest success was in a mind-reading challenge with me as the subject.
Unfortunately for him, that was also pretty much his only success, and
other tests clearly demonstrated that my own magical ability is seven
times his level.
Graham, if you're reading this, you know what to do. From this thread,
you can see that your services are in great need. All these skeptics
need only see the majesty of your magic powers. You can even tell
everyone about any mistakes or misrepresentations I've made above.

Maybe when he gets out of solitary confinement?

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Bob Officer

2014-05-29 21:49:50 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:53:59 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Astrologer. made lots of claims and his so called proof was cherry
picked data sets. HE found out it was nice to sue people.

There was at one time lots of great discussions in sci.skeptic.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Bob Casanova

2014-05-30 17:16:14 UTC

On Thu, 29 May 2014 14:49:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:53:59 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Astrologer. made lots of claims and his so called proof was cherry
picked data sets. HE found out it was nice to sue people.
There was at one time lots of great discussions in sci.skeptic.

Yeah, all the masters are long gone.

--
Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

Bob Officer

2014-05-30 21:27:21 UTC

On Fri, 30 May 2014 10:16:14 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Thu, 29 May 2014 14:49:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Thu, 29 May 2014 09:53:59 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Wed, 28 May 2014 17:21:06 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 09:58:46 -0700, in misc.health.alternative, Bob

Post by Bob Casanova
On Tue, 27 May 2014 15:56:50 -0700, the following appeared

Post by Bob Officer
On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:38:13 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Sylvia Else
Which part of what I said did you disagree with?
Or was it the ;)?
Sylvia.

You're a latecomer to the argument.

Sorry bob, you're a bit confused there.
But to answer your question, I would expect that if you had
participated in any ng it would give me support since you have so
often shown yourself to be a rude and stupid person.

Well for starters, those people which cross posted did not post in
support of you, did they?

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Sylvia has been here in MHA before.

Yes but not so much lately. Sylvia is a latecomer to the argument and
wishes to be brought up to speed on a topic where a lot of water has
passed under the proverbial bridge.

You saw the thread where you cross posted it.

Your arguments are just basically your falsified claims. they been
falsified several times over, but if you think you can survive
sci.skeptic go right ahead.

He/she/it might as well; the purpose of s.s is ignored
almost completely anyway; the group seems to mainly attract
religious fanatics these days.
Oh, for a return of "Riley G, the Psychic Defective"... ;-)

Resurrect Pete Stapleton? Maybe I need to go read some of the old
stuff from the mid 80's.

Astrologer. made lots of claims and his so called proof was cherry
picked data sets. HE found out it was nice to sue people.
There was at one time lots of great discussions in sci.skeptic.

Yeah, all the masters are long gone.

We wandered off... Many of use are still around. I still stop by from
time to time.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

george152

2014-05-26 20:15:01 UTC

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
You're a latecomer to the argument.
If you want to get involved, try hanging around a bit more.
In the meantime read some of the links below my sig.

Crap is crap Carole.
Links to crap are just that links to crap

ï¿½

2014-05-26 20:30:40 UTC

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 15:26:12 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:27:33 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Mon, 26 May 2014 18:10:45 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."

If you look for effective alternative remedies, then you'll find none,
so obviously they've been suppressed. ;)
Sylvia.

You forgot to add "in my opinion" because that's all it is - your
opinion.

No Carole, it is a matter of fact.

There is no evidence to support your claim of "suppressed"
alternative remedies.

You simply do not understand the meaning of the word "suppressed"

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Bob Officer

2014-05-26 15:23:09 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 03:29:00 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Fred

Post by Bob Officer
They don't need to "belittle and talk down" alternative remedies"
they simply do not work as claimed.

They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

You have not produced a single shred of evidence that any effective
alternative remedies have been "suppressed."
Your charge of "suppression" of effective alternative remedies is
without merit.

Carole has more or less stated in the past, that uses a special
personal daffy-nition for the word suppressed.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

george152

2014-05-26 20:12:41 UTC

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
They work and are suppressed.
Big pharma works hard at suppressing alternatives.

Wrong again Carole

Kaye

2014-05-26 05:44:59 UTC

On Mon, 26 May 2014 10:16:10 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, carole

Post by Kaye
On Sun, 25 May 2014 17:57:19 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!
I am not the one on trial here.

Why not you place everyone else on trial no matter where you go. it
is a personality disorder most likely seek help.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures. Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

There is no suppression, carole if there was suppression you at
illiterate as you are would not know about it.

There is suppression dolt.
All the time there is mainstream attempts to belittle and talk down
alterntive remedies.

You forget dolt, to factor in unsanitary lving conditions, long
working hours and malnutrition.

Are you capable of conversation without name calling? If unsanitary
living conditions reduced life expectancy, then nutritional cures
would not work. Cleaning would. If only nutritional cures work,
then unsanitary living conditions would not effect life expectancy at
all. You could simply take a nutritional cure and live in a filthy
hovel and all would be good, wouldn't it? You are contradicting your
own arguments and don't even realize it. Either one works or the
other does, but they are mutually exclusive (I do hope you understand
that phrase).

Post by carole
Yes, people are living longer but how much of that is due to
pharmaceutical products?
Medical intervention for diseases that kill people is important but I
don't consider long-term use of pharmaceutical drugs as life saving.

Think about this: If you are on long term use of pharmaceutical drugs,
it means you are alive, now doesn't it? It benefits "big pharma" to
keep us alive. After all dead people don't spend money on
medications. Think about that for a bit. :-) While you may not
consider long term use of drugs as life saving, it is not your life on
the line. As one person who will take a medication for life, I would
much rather do that than die. I take it, I live. I don't take it I
die. AND I am grateful that the medication is available. That falls
within the definition of life, saving stupid. There is no cell salt
that will do that for me.

Post by carole
< deleted the rest of the sanctimonious rant >
Good health should not be under corporate control.

Maybe not, but do you not realize your alternative treatments are
manufactured by corporations? Even the companies that manufacture
bicarb and cream of tartar are corporations. So either way it is
corporations. However, do you see anything on the packaging of those
two items that promise cures or treatments of the types of conditions
you are using them for?

Post by carole
This makes the health system phony in that it is designed for profit
over health.
It there is competition between corporate profits and health of the
people, the profits win and real cures are shelved in favour of
long-term management of disease.

ANY COMPANY, regardless of what they manufacture (including
homeopathic remedies), expect profits. If they don't get them, they
usually end up bankrupt and out of business. We all need a certain
amount of cash flow to pay bills, buy food and electricity, etc. Do
you work and give your time for free? Doesn't your own household
require a certain amount of money coming in to maintain it? This is
why Carole is STUPID. I'm not normally a name caller, but really,
you do deserve it.

Post by carole
This is why bob officer is STUPID because he doesn't understand the
basics of who should be in control.
Good health doesn't depend on having access to "new innovative" drugs.
If a person's health has become so poor they must depend on drugs they
need a good detox.

How is that bladder infection coming along? And the head lice? If
you will check, I did post a nutritional cure for that.
Kaye

Enquiring minds want to know

2014-05-27 22:37:36 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 22:44:59 -0700, Kaye
<***@getacluejan.bat> wrote:

Research for Kaye

The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

PHARMAMYTHS AND REALITIES
Institutional Corruption and the Myth of Safe, Effective Drugs
Explains how the FDA has become institutionally corrupt so that 90
percent of new approvals provide few or no advantages, and drugs are
the 4th leading cause of death.

"MARKET SPIRAL PRICING OF CANCER DRUGS"
Companies are spiraling up high prices, not because of costs or better
value, but because they can get away with it, only the USA.

The Myth of Safe & Effective Drugs (2013)
Review of evidence that only 1 in 10 new drugs has substantial
clinical advantages but 1 in every 5 results in serious harms.

Health Affairs review of PHARMAGEDDON
Insights in to how drug companies have been transforming illness,
diagnosis, the role of doctors, and treatment, away from clinical
pathology to risks by numbers.

Wasting money on marginally better new drugs
BMJ "Pharmaceutical R&D: What do we get for all that money?"
High prices and little added value characterize most new drugs. The
industry turns out articles on the so-called innovation crisis but we
prove there is none. Rather, a hidden business model leads to scores
of minor variations.

Data Exclusivity with no benefits
A detailed account of extending data exclusivity without credible
evidence it increases innovation. A costly protection from free-market
competition

Pharm R&D - Costly Myths
Recent record-high cost estimates of R&D are not only untrue but can
impede policy for global health justice

THE RISKS OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS (click)
Prescription drugs are less effective and more dangerous than patients
or physicians think

Demythologizing the High Costs of Drug Research
Cost of research per new drug is much lower than claimed
"The Inverse Benefit Law"

How drug marketing undermines patient safety and public health
Foreign Free Riders and the High Price of US Medicines (click)
Provides evidence that research and other costs are recovered at
European prices. Higher US drugs prices go largely to more marketing
and profits.

Enquiring minds want to know

The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf

Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/

Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

Kaye

2014-05-27 23:00:55 UTC

On Wed, 28 May 2014 08:37:36 +1000, in misc.health.alternative,

Post by Enquiring minds want to know
On Sun, 25 May 2014 22:44:59 -0700, Kaye
Research for Kaye

snipped all the nonsense below due to it all being on a propaganda
site. You really are gullible, aren't you?

The Other Guy

2014-05-28 00:38:56 UTC

On Wed, 28 May 2014 08:37:36 +1000, Enquiring minds want to know
<***@bigpond.com> wrote:

Yet ANOTHER new sock puppet for the list.

To reply by email, lose the Ks...

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

2014-05-25 19:37:06 UTC

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why there is so much chronic ill health in the
community. They won't answer because they LIKE IT THAT WAY - Corporate
medicine is in business to make money, the more the better.
The only reason I am here in mha is due to the fact that modern
medicine isn't working in the best interests of the patient. Modern
medicine has been misrepresenting the facts about the nature of
disease in order to promote drug-based medicine.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

Post by carole
I use nutritional remedies rather than pharmaceutical drugs - oh yes,
there are nutritional solutions for probably every disease including
certain parasite infestations including lice, bacterial and fungi
infections. But this little bit of information is a bit hard to come
by since the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) and FDA have been
infiltrated by pharmaceutical dupes who want to eliminate any
competition for drug-based medicine.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The rest is
all nonsense.

Since your problems, including those lice, always come back, you are
providing us with evidence that your cures DON'T work. Other than that, it
is just your word that you ever had any of these conditions.

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.

Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

Post by carole
--
carole
www.cellsalts.net
Biochemic Handbook at
http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
The pharmaceutical fraud
http://www.nuremberg-tribunal.org/fraud/index.html
History of the Pharmaceutical Drug Business - the drug trust
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_industryweapons13.htm

--
Lu

Bob Officer

2014-05-27 03:08:09 UTC

On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...

Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Exactly.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

Talk to an acupuncturist which used to post here. Evidence shows it
works in some very specific cases. Guess what, it is being integrated
into standardized medicine. Imagine that happening with homeopathy.
The problems is when tested homeopathy comes up empty handed every
time.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Leavening agents are not nutritional.

Post by Lu
Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The rest is
all nonsense.

One of which has a warning label for over use/abuse.

Post by Lu
Since your problems, including those lice, always come back, you are
providing us with evidence that your cures DON'T work. Other than that, it
is just your word that you ever had any of these conditions.

tada!

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.
Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

She is detriment to her own mental health and well being.

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

2014-05-27 04:19:25 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...
Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

And the jury finding are?

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

She has never learned the meaning of a lot of words.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Exactly.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Leavening agents are not nutritional.

Has Carole ever spoken about what she does eat?

Post by Lu
Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The rest is
all nonsense.

One of which has a warning label for over use/abuse.

tada!

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.
Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

She is detriment to her own mental health and well being.

She is also a public health menace if she is harboring head lice and chronic
athletes foot.
--
Lu

ï¿½

2014-05-27 04:29:28 UTC

Bob Officer

2014-05-27 04:45:43 UTC

On Tue, 27 May 2014 00:19:25 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...
Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

And the jury finding are?

J.Q. Public of the jury how find yea?

Willfully ignorant your honer, with some indications of mental
illness

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

She has never learned the meaning of a lot of words.

Ergo, willful ignorance.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Exactly.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

Alex was very understanding he posted here for a very long time.
Slowly here changed people's mind with data and evidence. I admire
him for his ability to persevere.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Leavening agents are not nutritional.

Has Carole ever spoken about what she does eat?

Oh yes. Mostly fried up food and junk foods.

Post by Lu
Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The rest is
all nonsense.

One of which has a warning label for over use/abuse.

tada!

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.
Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

She is detriment to her own mental health and well being.

She is also a public health menace if she is harboring head lice and chronic
athletes foot.

Do head lice suck out one's brains? It appear they did with carole/

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

ï¿½

2014-05-27 12:31:36 UTC

2014-05-27 17:25:45 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
On Tue, 27 May 2014 00:19:25 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...
Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

And the jury finding are?

J.Q. Public of the jury how find yea?
Willfully ignorant your honer, with some indications of mental
illness

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

She has never learned the meaning of a lot of words.

Ergo, willful ignorance.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Exactly.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

Alex was very understanding he posted here for a very long time.
Slowly here changed people's mind with data and evidence. I admire
him for his ability to persevere.

I guess I missed Alex. Or, is Alex Sylvia? I vaguely remember that name.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Leavening agents are not nutritional.

Has Carole ever spoken about what she does eat?

Oh yes. Mostly fried up food and junk foods.

Figures.

Post by Lu
Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The rest is
all nonsense.

One of which has a warning label for over use/abuse.

tada!

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.
Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

She is detriment to her own mental health and well being.

She is also a public health menace if she is harboring head lice and chronic
athletes foot.

Do head lice suck out one's brains? It appear they did with carole/

Well, how do we explain that? Must be that there was nothing left in her
blood for them to suck because of her constant cleansing so I guess they did
suck out her brain as a substitute. That was why the cure was so effortless
after she discovered Calcium. At the same time Carole discovered Calcium the
head lice discovered all her brain matter was gone. (G)
--
Lu

Poor Peter Bowditch

2014-05-27 22:51:41 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
Talk to an acupuncturist which used to post here. Evidence shows it
works in some very specific cases. Guess what, it is being integrated
into standardized medicine. Imagine that happening with homeopathy.
The problems is when tested homeopathy comes up empty handed every
time.

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

Alex was very understanding he posted here for a very long time.
Slowly here changed people's mind with data and evidence. I admire
him for his ability to persevere.

I guess I missed Alex. Or, is Alex Sylvia? I vaguely remember that name.

Andrew Kingoff, still around on Facebook.

--
Poor Peter Bowditch
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Blog at http://peterbowditch.com/wp/
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
I'm @RatbagsDotCom on Twitter

Bob Officer

2014-05-27 23:19:35 UTC

Post by Poor Peter Bowditch

On Wed, 28 May 2014 08:51:41 +1000, in misc.health.alternative, Poor

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

Alex was very understanding he posted here for a very long time.
Slowly here changed people's mind with data and evidence. I admire
him for his ability to persevere.

I guess I missed Alex. Or, is Alex Sylvia? I vaguely remember that name.

Andrew Kingoff, still around on Facebook.

I get his 1st name mixed up the Kingoff which the rock collector.
Alex is the rock collector, and Andrew is the needler

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Bob Officer

2014-05-27 23:03:03 UTC

On Tue, 27 May 2014 13:25:45 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Tue, 27 May 2014 00:19:25 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...
Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

And the jury finding are?

J.Q. Public of the jury how find yea?
Willfully ignorant your honer, with some indications of mental
illness

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

She has never learned the meaning of a lot of words.

Ergo, willful ignorance.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Exactly.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

Alex was very understanding he posted here for a very long time.
Slowly here changed people's mind with data and evidence. I admire
him for his ability to persevere.

I guess I missed Alex. Or, is Alex Sylvia? I vaguely remember that name.

Alex is not Sylvia.
Over the time we have become friend. Alex is a Englishman. I forget
where sylvia is at the moments.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Leavening agents are not nutritional.

Has Carole ever spoken about what she does eat?

Oh yes. Mostly fried up food and junk foods.

Figures.

If a have some spare time I try to find carole's own words about what
she eats.

Post by Lu
Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The rest is
all nonsense.

One of which has a warning label for over use/abuse.

tada!

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.
Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

She is detriment to her own mental health and well being.

She is also a public health menace if she is harboring head lice and chronic
athletes foot.

Do head lice suck out one's brains? It appear they did with carole/

(G)

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

2014-05-28 04:16:22 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
On Tue, 27 May 2014 13:25:45 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Tue, 27 May 2014 00:19:25 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...
Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

And the jury finding are?

J.Q. Public of the jury how find yea?
Willfully ignorant your honer, with some indications of mental
illness

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

She has never learned the meaning of a lot of words.

Ergo, willful ignorance.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Exactly.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

Alex was very understanding he posted here for a very long time.
Slowly here changed people's mind with data and evidence. I admire
him for his ability to persevere.

I guess I missed Alex. Or, is Alex Sylvia? I vaguely remember that name.

Alex is not Sylvia.
Over the time we have become friend. Alex is a Englishman. I forget
where sylvia is at the moments.

Thanks.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Leavening agents are not nutritional.

Has Carole ever spoken about what she does eat?

Oh yes. Mostly fried up food and junk foods.

Figures.

If a have some spare time I try to find carole's own words about what
she eats.

Not really necessary, but thanks.

Post by Lu
Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The
rest
is
all nonsense.

One of which has a warning label for over use/abuse.

Post by Lu
Since your problems, including those lice, always come back, you are
providing us with evidence that your cures DON'T work. Other than
that,
it
is just your word that you ever had any of these conditions.

tada!

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.
Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

She is detriment to her own mental health and well being.

She is also a public health menace if she is harboring head lice and chronic
athletes foot.

Do head lice suck out one's brains? It appear they did with carole/

(G)

--
Lu

Bob Officer

2014-05-28 04:35:31 UTC

On Wed, 28 May 2014 00:16:22 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Tue, 27 May 2014 13:25:45 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Tue, 27 May 2014 00:19:25 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...
Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

And the jury finding are?

J.Q. Public of the jury how find yea?
Willfully ignorant your honer, with some indications of mental
illness

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

She has never learned the meaning of a lot of words.

Ergo, willful ignorance.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma why cancer research has gone virtually nowhere
since the war on cancer began in 1970.

Remembering what the prognosis for cancer was before 1970, and the fact that
members of my family died from cancer that no longer kills people, I would
say that great progress has been made.

Exactly.

If there are any alternative remedies that work, they soon become
Pharmaceutical products.

I know of at least one doctors group that includes an acupuncturist.

Alex was very understanding he posted here for a very long time.
Slowly here changed people's mind with data and evidence. I admire
him for his ability to persevere.

I guess I missed Alex. Or, is Alex Sylvia? I vaguely remember that name.

Alex is not Sylvia.
Over the time we have become friend. Alex is a Englishman. I forget
where sylvia is at the moments.

My bad, Alex is of Russia ancestry. IIRC his family migrated via
England in the 1900's to the US. they were from Russia and were
fleeing the Russian unrest at the time. His family are rock
collectors and sell highly modified rocks set in metal bands. <g>

Post by Lu
Thanks.

No problem.

It is a big shame that you use nutritional "remedies" rather than eat a
balanced, nutritional diet.

Leavening agents are not nutritional.

Has Carole ever spoken about what she does eat?

Oh yes. Mostly fried up food and junk foods.

Figures.

If a have some spare time I try to find carole's own words about what
she eats.

Not really necessary, but thanks.

Ok I spend some time this evening tracking her "mis-suse" of "me-too
drugs".

Post by Lu
Other than that, you over dose yourself with baking ingredients. The
rest
is
all nonsense.

One of which has a warning label for over use/abuse.

Post by Lu
Since your problems, including those lice, always come back, you are
providing us with evidence that your cures DON'T work. Other than
that,
it
is just your word that you ever had any of these conditions.

tada!

Post by carole
Modern medicine can't be trusted and anybody who thinks otherwise is
STUPID !!

It is pretty STUPID of you to keep telling people who use drugs and are
satisfied with the results and "living!" comfortably, that modern medicine
can't be trusted.
Aside from that, you, Carole Hubbard can not be trusted. Doing so may be
detrimental to our health.

She is detriment to her own mental health and well being.

She is also a public health menace if she is harboring head lice and chronic
athletes foot.

Do head lice suck out one's brains? It appear they did with carole/

(G)

that or the fungus ate it... <g>

--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
<RWpco.4333$***@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com>

Duncan

2014-05-27 14:59:44 UTC

Post by Bob Officer
On Sun, 25 May 2014 15:37:06 -0400, in misc.health.alternative, Lu

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!

In the end, you may be the person on trial. Perjury is a crime.

Post by carole
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be.

The court of public opinion...
Judge J.Q. Public presiding.

Post by carole
Ask big pharma to explain why it lies and suppresses alternative
cures.

Unlike you, Carole, the courts require evidence of a wrong doing.

carole has never learned what the word suppress means.

Give up bob, you're making a jackass of yourself.

Duncan
Fence sitter extraordinaire

">I didn't know there was a requirement to generate topics. Where did

Post by Bob Officer
you get that idiotic idea from. " -- Bob Officer

george152

2014-05-25 20:19:16 UTC

Post by carole
I AM NOT THE PERSON WHO NEEDS TO DO ANY EXPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING !!
I am not the one on trial here.

You should be !

ï¿½

2014-05-26 19:55:59 UTC