On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 17:04:11 +0000 (UTC), Bob Officer
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieOn Mon, 26 Sep 2016 21:23:38 +0000 (UTC), Bob Officer
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieOn Sun, 25 Sep 2016 21:13:02 +0000 (UTC), Bob Officer
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieOn Mon, 19 Sep 2016 23:58:23 +0000 (UTC), Bob Officer
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Carole's Braindead NonsenseOn Mon, 19 Sep 2016 05:07:05 +0000 (UTC), Bob Officer
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieOn Sun, 18 Sep 2016 11:07:26 -0500, "K Wills (Shill #3)"
Post by K Wills (Shill #3)On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 20:51:22 +1000, Blind Freddie
[Snip of items betwixt others]
Post by Blind FreddieOn Sun, 18 Sep 2016 04:28:13 +0000 (UTC), Bob Officer
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieOn Sun, 18 Sep 2016 08:52:47 +1000, Blind Freddie
Post by Blind FreddieLyme Disease most likely escaped from Plum Island, brought to the
mainland by birds.
Lyme disease is cause by a spirochete it requires fluid exchange usually
transmitted by insect bite. Hand, Foot and Mouth Disease (HFMD) is caused
by a coxsackie virus.
Do not confuse HFMD with bovine hHoof and mouth disease. Which it appears
you have done, Carole. Repeating crap,which you have no ability or known to
even have a bit of opinion of weight.
Nobody is confusing animal foot & mouth disease with HFMD.
Plum Island deals with animal diseases, some of which may cross over
to humans, although this is denied by many politicians.
Who has denied that it MAY happen?
What may happen?
Post by K Wills (Shill #3)Post by Blind FreddieWhat the objections to moving the facility to Kansas if the threat to
the farming industry.
I've not been made aware of anyone making any threats to the
farming industry. Do you have any VALID, VERIFIABLE cites for your
claim?
What we're talking about is if you have a germ research laboratory in
the middle of prime farming land, there is the potential for germs to
escape. eg There is strong suspicion that Lyme disease came from Plum
Island as the starting point is just across the water from it. I'm not
sure what you're talking about.
Nonsense. Lyme disease was described in the late 1600 and early 1700s by
several different medical doctors.
PLUM Island facility wasn't built until the 1954. But don't let ignorance
get into your way, Carole.
Was that Lyme disease weaponized, or not before 1954?
I can answer that for you. One of the early classes as a WO was a basic
class in ACB defense protocol. ACB is
Simply Atomic, Chemical and Biological warfare. One of the points brought
out was for biological weaponization to take place the effective agent
needs to rapidly deployable and not subject to having to have a secondary
carrier. Because Lyme disease requires a fluid exchange usually via an
insect bite, as primary vector, Lyme disease would have never been
considered. To even lower the consideration rate, the fact that while Lyme
disease can cause long term health effects in some people but a significant
portion of the target population, the actual effects usually take years to
show up and as a weapon doesn't meet the minimum requirements for a weapon.
(I'm back -- had to take a little trip for a few days)
I hope you enjoyed the orchid show.
It wasn't an orchid show, that was the week before.
I understand it is considered one of the better shows.
To which orchid show do you refer?
There was OSCOV (Orchid Society Club of Victoria), COSV (cymbidium
Orchid society of Victoria) and ANOS-Vic (Australian Native Orchid
Society - Victoria).
I went to the COSV show where the orchids were considered world class.
OSCOV was the biggest show with varieties of all sorts of orchids.
It was the one which took place last weekend, I believe that was the OSCOV.
It was being praised by a photographer friend of mine.
The OSCOV (all orchids) show was 26-28 Aug 2016
The COSV (cymbidiums) show was 10-11 Sept 2016
There were growers from interstate who exhibited also. Some came from
WA who brought cut flowers only as due to regulations they weren't
allowed to take plants back to WA. Can bring but can't take back.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieDepends on what you mean by biological weapon and what the intent is.
The term has an exact meaning. It is not subject to variability of personal
made up daffynitions.
I disagree.
You don't get to disagree and use your own daffynitions, Carole.
The term has a very exact and narrow definitions. It does very according to
a twits whim.
Post by Blind FreddieIt depends on the purpose.
I would say that a biological weapon is more for medium to long-term
effect, compared to chemical which is short-term effect.
That is what your fail to understand, you don't get any say in this case.
Sorry, I get to say what my understanding is, and if you don't agree
then you give a reason.
You have no understanding Carole. That's the point. You have a right to an
opinion, but no one has to,listen to it. All opinions do not have equal
weight.
You have zero qualifications in the the field of history, science or
military. Your opinion has no weight and is nothing but empty words and not
air.
It is a matter of logic, no knowledge needed.
Biological doesn't work short-term, takes longer to work and is
therefore more subtle and not so easily detectable.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieThere is what we know as conventional warfare where the effects need
to be apparent in a short timeframe. It all depends on the agenda. An
actual war situation is one thing, but there might be other scenarios
eg demoralising, ruining a country, reducing population which could be
long-term.
But those cases are far fetched and require nothing more than absolute and
full controlled environments, and fully controlled and isolated
populations.
Far-fetched or just not publicised?
No far fetched, Carole. BTW I retired from the USNR-R in 2001. 40 years of
service as a Ready Reservist. So my training and knowledge is only about 15
years out of date.
America is the most corrupt nation on the planet.
And again, that is your unqualified and worthless opinion. It is hot air. I
can point to far more corrupt government and base the corruption on real
figures and real crimes.
I doubt you can point to a more corrupt country than US.
This is a country where corporations have more say in the democratic
process than people.
Where the people are lied to about everything, where the media is used
to disseminate disinformation, where government instrumentalities are
under the control of corporations.
A country that wages war around the world and lies about the reasons.
So which country would you say was more corrupt?
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieEverything is about money and political expediency.
Nobody takes anything seriously from US sources since it is all just
hijacked information and propaganda dished out to rationalise
different money making ventures. Anything you think you know is
probably all wrong.
I see your hand moving but there is nothing in them. Nothing but hot
worthless air.
I see your gums flapping, but nothing of any sense comes out.
Just the same old "trust us we're experts" and "don't bother thinking,
you just aren't good enough to have an opinion".
Post by Bob OfficerWhile you are pointing your finger at the US government, remember the only
reason your country is not considered a prefecture of Japan, is the US
government.
I see your point on that one.
However, the reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbor was the US wanted it
to, and encouraged it to, and knew well beforehand that it would
attack. There are books written on that topic.
Post by Bob OfficerYou are really an example of classic fool, Carole.
And you are an example of a mind-controlled zombie bob.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieSecret or clandestine weapons are only far-fetched because they
haven't been brought to the attention of the public, and the reasons
are other than what is commonly known.
That has to be just about the dumbest thing you said today, Carole. But it
is still early
Think about it - far-fetched is something considered unlikely, based
on ideas about what is probable and what is possible.
You said it provable and possible. The real problem those two words do not
apply. The word probability does. The probability is near zero because the
facts of biology, entomology, and vector transmissions.
Probable and possible - not provable and possible.
I wouldn't say its impossible that the US is experimenting with
biological weapons. I would say its highly likely.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieYou wouldn't have a clue what is going on because those in the know
prefer to keep the public in the dark - treated like mushrooms, kept
in the dark and fed sh*t.
That's the difference between you and I. I read real science journals, you
don't.
Science journals only have a certain amount of information.
There is a lot of suppressed information and disinformation.
Post by Bob OfficerIf you say I don't have a clue then you have even less. And those web sites
your rely upon are not as reliable as you wish they are. The person that is
in the dark and fed shit is you Carole. So much dark and shit, you are a
walking mushroom (fungus infection)
You have technical knowledge, but don't understand the lies and
corruption, and the lack of secrecy and transparency that exists.
What do you think goes on in all those DUMBs (deep underground
military bases) that nobody is allowed to go anywhere near, and can be
shot on sight for trespassing too close?
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieIf there is some sort of hidden agenda, and people operating over the
longer term (think decades or even centuries for global control) then
such weapons might make more sense.
When you talk about controlled environments, you are thinking of
nation against nation. Secret weapons are meant for unconventional
warfare. If you're just talking about reducing population for
instance, it doesn't matter about targeting a group. But then there's
genetic targeting which can be accurate.
No controlled environment means just that. Fully control of weather and
population movement, and insects and all animals. There are far to many
variables to make it a dependable weapon.
Maybe, maybe not.
No maybe not.
Not if you add genetic information to the mix, or not if you don't
care who gets infected for some reason. eg, maybe population control
or maybe testing purposes.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieDepends on what technology you have and how accurate it can be made.
Think, Carole. I know that's hard for you to do. Consider all the variables
for which one would,have to have full control, and that the disease takes
months or years for Lyme disease to become fully debilitating, how great,of
a weapon would it be. And the major vector for the disease is can be
stopped by an already existing insecticide which can be readily sprayed
over a wide area with little effect on the population.
Bob, you're only thinking of conventional warfare where the target is
people of another country.
What if the target is reducing numbers of people, or what if it is
infecting the whole country, not to kill but to disable to some
extent? Like Little Red Riding Hood, all the better to control people
if they're not on their game but are somehow limited.
Post by Bob OfficerSee why you are considered to have no opinion of weight?
Not really.
Do you see why no thinking person would take you seriously?
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerSee why it is far fetched and worthless pursuit? Reality comes into play
and while you might have some idiotic notions, the physical laws come into
play.
Who's reality?
The brain-washed and mind controlled public, or those who have the
hidden agenda that they've been following for a long time, for
whatever nefarious hidden agenda, to wipe out a large segment of
humanity, all the better for total control.
You just described your own mentality, Carole.
And to top it off you are the only dumbed-down person which falls for
nonsense.
Your mind is closed tighter than a fish's arse.
And again you issue a proclamation which is descriptive of your own self,
not mine.
Doesn't add up.
I'm the person saying that it is possible, meaning open mind.
OTOH you are saying its impossible, ie closed mind.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerAs an aside, Can you imagine dropping billions of infected ticks over a
city from 20,000 feet. The impact would be messy. And ticks would freeze
well before they hit the ground. Also as a weapon there must be a way after
the enemy has been defeated for your own troops and population to enter the
area. No using Lyme disease as a WoMD is not viable.
Basic education and ABC warfare protocols. At one time basic ABC classes
were required for all US military personal. The "C" part is still part of
basic training, my nephew just completed Army Basic training and mention
that portion of training as being the hardest to complete.
Post by Carole's Braindead NonsenseI'll get back to that in a couple of days.
That will be interesting, I am sure. Your empty hand waving versus what I
will call 30 year old class and field experience. Yes the "C" requirement
is that you properly suit up in the protective gear including gas mask and
sit in a closed chamber where Tear gas is released. You sit for a time
inside the chamber and then are required to remove the mask so you have a
full understanding of what it means to be uncomfortable wearing the
protective gear, and in pain or (dead in the battle field) because you
didn't properly put on your protective gear.
Yes I don't know what jackass you will cite, but what ever nonsense you
have will be laughed at.
No need to cite anybody.
Except you have no personal knowledge and no experience so you will be
required to outside references and citations. You really lack a background
of basic biology, chemistry and physics along with your total lack of
logic,, critical thinking skills and ability to understand what you have
read will lead to nothing expect you being made an idiot out of... by you
own words.
Before you can assess a situation, you need to have the facts.
I have far more facts than you do. Fallacies are not facts, Carole.
You have some facts, and you have some storylines, not necessarily
true.
You don't have all the facts.
But they are facts, and can be verified. You have no facts, only stories
and usually a single source of a story. The problem you never check any of
your stories.
I go with what I've got bob.
Since the media has been taken over, the schools are about social
conditioning rather than education, a person has to go with what is
available. We all know the current system is totally corrupt and can't
be relied on. It feeds us garbage, so the only thing left is
speculation and logic.
Make sense?
You can't trust the bastards, they lie at every turn.
They are all about treachery and deceiving the people.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieYou haven't got all the facts, just those that are publicly
acknowledged.
You don't take into account hidden secret agendas of those who want
total global conquest and who have been plotting for centuries.
Your understanding is very shallow.
Grow up,Carole. And start to learn how to think for yourself.
When you only read nonsense, that's all you seem to believe.
You're an idiot.
What, no response?
So you accept you're an idiot?
Good on you bob, realising your shortfalls is a good start.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieExcept there was the nazi scientist who was expert in ticks being
weaponised, who was sent to work at Plum Island.
No he wasn't. He visited exactly three times for a total amount of time of
less than three hours total. His consultation was not about ticks but about
a hoof and mouth sample he had procured from an outbreak in Turkey during
WW2.
That is the message to the public.
That from the visitors logs under the FOI requests. He was never a federal
employee are any lab.
There is a lot of secrecy surround Plum Island and Operation
Paperclip. The facts are kept from the public, they are fed what is
called "cover stories" invented to appease and keep the public quiet
and subdued. If the real facts of so much were to get out the public
would riot.
No,Carole. All Federal employment records are all public. If you work and
get a government paycheck it public record. Traub's employment record was
public as part of operation paperclip.
I doubt that all employee records are public.
Can you prove that they aren't hidden, altered and made to disappear?
Post by Bob OfficerAnd for god's sake who ever told you operation paper clip was secret? I
lived in the area where most of the people worked for LLNL/AEC and I would
guess about 25% came over under Operation Paperclip. Those people were
highly monitored for years. When I was growing up,one of my neighbors was
an employee at the LLNL, when he died his widow moved back to Germany
because she was tired of being constantly monitored by the government. Her
husbands and her both lost people in the concentration camps run by Nazi,
but because he was in research and part of operation paperclip, he remained
monitored as long as he was in the US.
The actual operation paperclip isn't a secret, but what the nazi
scientists worked on would have been classified.
Plum Island is secret. eg, What would scientists be working on
regarding ticks, and what biological weapon can they be used to
create?
http://rense.com/general63/lyme.htm
"When a large portion of the population is sick and unable to work,
this puts an enormous strain on the economy. I predict that if we do
not make this issue an immediate priority, our country will indeed
become quickly disabled.
The next logical question would be...does Lyme Disease and it's
coinfections fit into this scenerio?
Certain doctors and researchers feel that lyme disease and it's
confections such as mycoplasma fermentens (patented by the U,S. Army)
are actually microrganisms with excellent credentials for qualifying
as disabling biowarfare agents"
http://www.nothing-is-incurable.com/2010/05/lyme-disease-is-this-biological-warfare.html
"If nothing else the internet has shown us, through access to
documents, investigative journalism and documentaries, that the
governments of this world are capable of any despicable act
imaginable. Sadly we find, in the US, that our government in the 20th
century seems to be top of the list for sick thinking.
Lyme disease: Some facts
1. Lyme disease did not start appearing until the mid-1970s.
2. Its one of the fastest growing infectious diseases in the US
3. Its first recorded outbreak was in Old Lyme, Connecticut
4. Old Lyme, CT is directly across Long Island sound from Plum Island
which for years the US government claimed was an entirely benign
livestock disease research center.
5. Characteristically, the federal government lied about the fact that
biological warfare experiments were conducted on the island for
decades. They were forced to give up this charade in 1993 when a
Newsday unearthed documents proving otherwise.
6. Extensive experiments were conducted on Plum Island that involved
creating diseases and infecting ticks with them- all in the name of
protecting Americas livestock
7. Like many clandestine research programs, Plum Island appears to
have had former Nazi scientists in the role of advisors, specifically
Dr. Erich Traub, who was in charge of the Third Reichs virological
and bacteriological warfare program in World War II."
https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2014/09/517867.html
"Lyme as basic bacteria has been around for millions of years. As have
a thousand plus other exotic diseases.
1. during WW2 Nazis sent many scientists into jungles looking for lost
diseases they could "weaponize". They found some including Lyme.
2. Lyme itself was weak and wore off like a common cold.
3. the Nazis began to "harden" Lyme but then WW2 ended.
4. Americans brought hundreds of Nazi germ warfare scientists to
America in a move called "Operation Paperclip" (Google it).
5. after WW1 most countries including America signed a treaty NOT to
engage in germ warfare work or development. Everyone then ignored the
treaty.
6. written in great detail in the 2004 book titled Lab 257 is proof
that the USA was the WORST offender! America developed more killer
germs and viruses than anyone else! I am reading the book again. It is
an amazing book!
7. You can buy the book used very cheap via alibris dot com. I paid
$4.
8. Yes, Erich Traub was the key German scientist brought to America to
head up the new operation located on Plum Island off the coast of
Connecticut. from the book Lab 257 it is obvious BAD germs got loose.
Including hardened ticks carrying weaponized Lyme disease impossible
to get rid of.
9. Beyond belief but Americans "tested" the ticks by dropping them on
Lyme, CT in 1975 to see if anyone would get sick.
10. They thought they had a fast cure. They did not. The ticks made
MANY people sick and it has spread since then now spreading faster
than any other disease.
11. So the original Lyme of millions of years ago is almost harmless.
The ticks from Plum Island are killers.
12. Read Lab 257 and your outlook on government will completely
change. Even Americans placed no value on human life. That continues
today in other things we see government doing.
13. IMO "governments" are gone. The world is now "run" by an
"international group of criminals who have no regard for life".
14. So Lyme is not new but the "killer hardened Lyme disease" is new.
It was turned loose in 1975 dropped on Lyme, CT.
15. As I say, the book Lab 257 will inform you of 95% of everything.
Since the USA government helped spread it and they weaponized it they
are now trying to cover their tracks. BUT it is spreading so fast that
covering it up is beginning to become impossible."
So there you have it.
Some people who have done research, read books and have insights, put
forward their opinions.
Unlike your opinions, they consider possibilities, yours are merely
what you have been told by "experts and reliable sources".
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddieThe fact that project paperclip was in operation, the fact that these
nazi war criminals were secretly imported into US, the fact that so
much remains hidden from the public, is more than enough to raise
questions.
Why do you say it was a secret when everyone seem to know about it?
You're an idiot.
It is simple, isn't it. Operation Paperclip wasn't a secret at the time.
Not all the people brought into the US under operation paperclip were
deemed war criminals. Traub and the research facility he worked in was
deemed not a war crime activity, Carole. Being a Nazi party member itself
was not a war crime. Holding a position in the German Army was also deemed
not a war crime.
As I said before bob. Operation Paperclip might not have been a secret
although I doubt it was written about in the newspapers.
But what these scientists were brought to US to do, no doubt remains
classified information.
Post by Bob OfficerIt appears you lack of background knowledge about WW2, the Nuremberg War
Tribunals, and operation paperclip is seriously lacking.
There is what is common knowledge and what is kept hidden and secret.
You merely acknowledge what is common knowledge, ie what the
government wants the public to know. The rest is secret, kept hidden
and nobody except people with top clearance and sworn to secrecy,
know.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind FreddiePost by Bob OfficerPost by Blind Freddiehttp://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/25/the-deadly-secrets-of-plum-island/
"?Lab 257? also maintains that there is a link between the Plum Island
center and the emergence of Lyme disease. It ?suddenly surfaced? 10
miles from Plum Island ?in Old Lyme, Connecticut in 1975.? Carroll
cites years of experimentation with ticks on Plum Island and the
possibility of an accidental or purposeful release.
You forget Carroll is an expert on land development and his firm has plans
drawn up to turn PLUM island's 840 acres into a hunting resort.
You can deny everything based on the fact that there is no real
evidence. However, the mere fact of the secrecy, the explanations that
aren't always satisfactory, leave a person making up possible
scenarios which can't be ruled out until more believable explanations
are forthcoming.
The evidence is Carroll had plans to build and was actively lobbying
congress to sell the island off as surplus. His firm had plans and
financing for the resort they planned to develop on PLUM island.
I'll just go with the theory that they are doing genetic engineering
Carole , before you can have a theory, you have to have some sort of
supporting evidence. What you really have is baseless and idle speculation,
not a theory.
There is evidence that the US and other countries have experimented on
people. It might take quite a while for it to come out and most of it
would be classified.
Post by Bob OfficerAnd when you consider your total lack of basic knowledge, your speculation
is dismissible as just a silly notion from brainless a internet twit or
troll.
Nice attempt to write me off, just like the government does with its
"nothing to see here folks", or "you're just a crazy conspiracy
theorist" etc.
Post by Bob OfficerPost by Blind Freddieof biological diseases since nobody can prove it wrong, since there is
no honesty or integrity in high places who operate in secret for
reasons best known to themselves.
Nothing like following your initial error of believing your silly notion is
a theory with senseless fallacies, Carole, but that is your MO.
Post by Blind FreddieApart from that anything you say in defence of those in the know is
just garbage. You have no idea. What you would like, and what happens
in an ideal world, is not what happend in the US.
Priceless projection.
You're a mind controlled dunce.
The only reason there is no evidence is that everything is locked away
from prying eyes, and scientists sworn to secrecy or killed off.
Remember the recent rash of "accidental" deaths of microbiologists?
I mightn't be right on everything, that doesn't mean I'm going to
believe all the government disinformation either.
--
Blind Freddie
"None so blind as those who will not see"
7 Massive Misconceptions Many Never Question
http://tinyurl.com/jg9jay3
A brief history of FDA raids against providers of natural health
products
https://thebovine.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/a-brief-history-of-fda-raids-against-providers-of-natural-health-products/
Tyranny in the USA: The true history of FDA raids on healers, vitamin
shops and supplement companies
http://www.naturalnews.com/021791.html
The Laws of the Pharmaceutical Industry
http://tinyurl.com/zgmi
DDT
"A former high official at the NSA (National Security Agency) told me
about a protocol informally dubbed DDT - that old poisonous chemical
long-banned in much of the world. In this application, it stands for
Decoy, Distract and Trash - which is what sophisticated intelligence
operatives use to set up some person or group, take them off the trail
of something real and important, and trash the person or the
subject." -- Stephen Greer.
Suppression of dissent in science
Brian Martin / Research in Social Problems and Public Policy, Volume 7
1999
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Suppression-Dissent-Science.htm
Cover Stories invented to engineer public opinions
"Many people have been so concerned about what has been happening to
our Government that they have dedicated themselves to investigating
and exposing its evils. Unfortunately, a number of these writers have
been dupes of those cleverer than they or with sinister reasons for
concealing knowledge. They have written what they thought was the
truth, only to find out (if they ever did find out) that they had been
fed a lot of contrived cover stories and just plain hogwash. In this
book I have taken extracts from some of this writing and, line by
line, have shown how it has been manipulated to give a semblance of
truth while at the same time being contrived and false. " -- The
Secret Team, Fletcher L. Prouty,
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/appA.html
The FDA is Running an Extortion Racket
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/11/13/the-fda-is-running-an-extortion-racket.aspx
"The FDA has been targeting supplement makers for some time, claiming
its all in the interest of public safety. But it doesnt take much
investigation to realize whats really going on: the FDA isnt
interested in protecting you -- theyre interested in protecting the
pharmaceutical industry."
NCI's revolving door with the cancer industry
http://www.cancerdefeated.com/newsletters/How-Conspiracy-and-Fraud-Sabotage-the-War-on-Cancer.html
Modern schooling and the war against competition
http://tinyurl.com/o4bv7e6
